Ethnographic Arms & Armour - A pig in a poke :-)

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)

- Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - A pig in a poke :-) (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11392)

A pig in a poke :-)

Quite a usual story: an eBay kukri with two very bad pictures (never make such pictures when selling weapons :-) Here are the original seller’s pictures:

From these pictures I was pretty sure that it is quite old (at least first half of 20th c.), so I risked to buy it (as any other pig in a poke it wasn’t expensive :-) When I’ve received it I found out that it is very thick, massive, heavy and large thing (almost 50 cm long), and on couple of places an old bright polish with Damascus pattern was still visible – a good inspiration for cleaning!
The final result was really fascinating, that’s why I want to share it. The skill of the old Nepali village smiths was really high! And it looks like originally these kukris were polished and etched to reveal the pattern – it was a question that bothered me for a long time.
As usual, I will be grateful for any comments :-)

Hi Tatyana,
I think you've just disproved the old adage about 'being unable to make a silk purse from a sows ear'. Spiral, as you know, is the one who will be able to help you on this. If I were you I would drop him a P.M. to have a look as he might not pick up on the Kukri angle from your title. My knowledge in this sphere is very limited but it is impressive, seems early and certainly looks a genuine 'user'. It is nice to get a 'good' surprise from eBay!!!!
My Regards,
Norman.

That is truly stunning. I have only 1 kukri with any pattern at all, but yours is amazing.
Congratulations!
Steve

I think it is rare to get one with a pattern on it. I also think it is older than 20c. Nice puppy!

Thank you all for he compliments and comments! I have some other old Kukris: all of them have laminated blades, but the pattern is random, functional and has a very low contrast. Normally I leave them bright polished, without any etch… That’s why I wanted to share this piece, finding it truly fascinating!
Spiral: it looks that your Kukri is from the same sword smith ‘school’ as mine :-) Thank you for showing it! Do you have any guesses or theories about their provenance or age? I am pretty sure that both are pre-WWII and most probably from Nepal, but I would like to know more :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Spiral: it looks that your Kukri is from the same sword smith ‘school’ as mine :-) Thank you for showing it! Do you have any guesses or theories about their provenance or age? I am pretty sure that both are pre-WWII and most probably from Nepal, but I would like to know more :-)

Well Tatyana, to be exact in this case with these kukri is difficult of course, all I can do is look at specfic features , shape, structure, bolster, grip design & compare them to known examples, & also confusion arrises as of course sometimes earlier features could be copied at a later date on occasion so its an assesment or guesses of the averages of those features.

That said, Ill run though my thoughts as they occur, I dont belive this type of lamination would have occured in Nepal post C.1930 but of course that is impossible to proove definativly. But yes definatly pre.WW2. ;)

The size of your piece is large enough to be used for religious animal sacrafice but also would be a common size to be a weapon in 19th century {Even very early 20th century.]. But to help further clarify what does it weigh? how long is its grip? & how far in front of the bolster is its balance point?

I think the kukri it is Nepaly made, not Indian the scabbard also appears typical Nepali scabbard, the blade lamination reminds me of Tibetan laminations but would love input from our Tibetan weapons collectors on that score as I am rather inexpierinced in that field, but it rather seems such work did go on in Nepal at some time, somehow, from the kukris I have had or seen..

Tha kaudi post shape I would think probably post c.1850 on your example.

But all in all I would think your kukri is mid to late 19th century to my mind, but it could be earlier or even later in truth {Although I doubt anything past c.1900 is realy likely.} But my best bet is mid to late 19th century. So probably 110 to 160 years old.

If I am wrong about the kaudi it even be could be early 19th century. [That would be from about 110 to say 200 years old.}

But all that in total is just is just a semi educated guess, :o I am still a student of kukri myself & still learing as I go. :)

Whatever its exact age its a wonderfull piece for your collection. Great size shape & lamination pattern!

Jonathan

Jonathan: I am very happy that you write on this Forum. Thank you very much for enlightening us and sharing your knowledge! A student is a person who studies a subject; I see it as a right word…
Here are approximate specs:
Overall length: 48 cm (19”)
Handle length (inkl. bolster): 11 cm (4.33”)
Thickness near handle: 0.9 cm (0.35”)
POB: 15 cm from bolster (5.9”)
Weight: 0.8 kg (1.76 lbs)

Thank you Tatyana, Well you do bring such beuties to the forum!

From the specifications you share combined with what I have seen I would say it was a kukri for battle with those of two legs rather than to sacrafice of those with four. ;) {Although it could still do a far job of that.}

Its what some would a one hit kukri, two hits probably wouldnt be neccasary. :eek:

But it is a true piece of art as well. :)

Jonathan

Jonathan: I think you have achieved great results in your studies! And thank you once again for kind words!
I have another old Kukri which has similar dimensions. Would your magic formula give similar results in regard of this Kukri?

Overall length: 48.5 cm (19.1”)
Handle length: 11.5 cm (4.53”)
Thickness near handle: 0.95 cm (0.37”)
POB: 13.6 cm from handle (5.32”)
Weight: 0.75 kg (1.65 lbs)

This Kukri has a nice geometry, but random lamination pattern. Sadly, the steel bolster is missing, and I do not know how I can restore one…

Well Tatanya Ive learnt a few things over that last 10 years, including that you have got a couple of peices I seriously covet! So congratulations on that & your impecable charm of course! :D

I personly shy away from magic formula & rules of thumb with these as some kukris would be intended for different specific uses no matter what the formula came up with, but yes the specification details do help the completness of the picture. ;)

I wonder if the steel is what the English called "shear steel"?

If it is it is laminated in its making but doesnt enhance the beuty of the blade in any way & was just a way of making steel of good quality & great cutting pottential before high quality steel alloys became easier to obtain. I dont usualy leave such pieces in anm etched condition myself although its always interesting to see the work that went into making them.

IMHO though, that is a very well forged & ground Dia Chirra kukri, { Translates from two vallys in Gurkhali} It appears typicaly Derhadun construction as made by Garhwal smiths. A shame its lost its bolster.

Dating post 1900 definatly, probably C.1910 to C.1920 could be 1920s , definatly pre. ww2 though.

Made for show and fighting, probably for Senior NCO or British Officer or some other reasonably well off European.

The structure of buttcap is very military in style though for that period..

Made for last ditch self defense not primary weapon or utility tool, {Officers & Senior NCOs would carry pistols as well & didnt have to cut there own firewood!.} definatly not made for sacrafice. Although it could still tame many a goat I am sure!

It was also made to look good & be shown of to the owners peers I am sure!

Jonathan

p.s. To fit a replacment bolster from a matching sized junk kukri without diissembling evry component would be impossible, without having a Kami or lohar on hand to make one for you in situ it would be a difficult construction probaly most suited to a silvrsmith in the west.

Heres a link to one chaps ingenious way of getting round a similar problem but I think it still requires dissasembly of handle.

linky...

Jonathan, thank you a lot for the information and your compliments! And I think you know that the best compliments for the collector are some kind words about his much beloved sharp and pointy things :-) I believe that you have a marvelous Kukri collection yourself since you know the subject so well!
I have thought that the Dia Chirra kukri was at least as old as ‘A pig in a poke’ Kukri and that it is also from Nepal (they have similar specifications and handle design) – and I was wrong both times... There exists no magic formula sadly…
The blade construction of the second Kukri is pretty typical (well, 4 of 5 Kukri that I own have such a blade construction). I mean it is not a ‘shear steel’, but a laminated construction, with hard steel on the cutting edge plus some layers of steel on the both sides (a variation of http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5908) . I keep such blades un-etched too…
I was afraid that the bolster is pretty much unrestorable: I do not want to remove the handle - and soldering steel is pretty difficult :-) The buttcap is steel, so bolster should be also steel, not brass, as in the link… But anyway, thank you for the link, maybe it will be useful for some other kukri in the future :-)

I am glad some of that was of use Tatanyia!

Ahhh yes your steel grip dia chirra I remember to!

Its funny butto my eye some random patterns have there own beuty & that one is such, Some can have ugly patterns & those I dont leave on show.

Take care,
Jonathan