Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Mandau (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30690)

Marc M. 19th May 2025 03:00 PM

Mandau
 
12 Attachment(s)
I recently received some objects from a friend who lived in Indonesia with her parents in the 70-80s. Her father traveled all over Indonesia for his work and regularly brought something home. Like these mandau's, quite small 65 and 63 cm. Both blades have a convex and a concave side. One blade is laminated steel with several fractures, faults, one over almost the entire length of the blade. Cutting on the handle reasonably good, especially the ivory piece. In both handles traces of where a coin once sat. Facinating objects but beyond my familiar knowledge. Made for those who travel, the real stuff, just let me know what you guys think.
Regards
Marc

Marc M. 19th May 2025 03:02 PM

5 Attachment(s)
More pictures.

werecow 19th May 2025 09:55 PM

Those swirls in that ivory hilt are lovely.

Pertinax 20th May 2025 07:21 AM

Congratulations Marc!

Very cool swords!
What is the diameter of the coin slot?

With respect,
Yuri.

Marc M. 20th May 2025 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pertinax (Post 297521)
Congratulations Marc!

Very cool swords!
What is the diameter of the coin slot?

With respect,
Yuri.

Hi Yuri

About 15mm.

Regards
Marc

Pertinax 20th May 2025 08:59 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Marc there may have been a coin - Netherlands India 1/10 guilder. I have a Mandau that was also without a coin, I bought it online for a small amount of money.

See the thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29680

With respect,
Yuri.

Tim Simmons 20th May 2025 04:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The real deal can be problematic . A sword made for dancing, once used to attack a person becomes real. WW2 era swords were used and Iban warriors in the UK Borneo 1963 -1966 dispute swords were used. These look nice but not sure they will impress the old guard.

Sajen 20th May 2025 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow (Post 297518)
Those swirls in that ivory hilt are lovely.

I don't think that the hilt is carved from ivory. ;)

Sajen 20th May 2025 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons (Post 297528)
The real deal can be problematic . A sword made for dancing, once used to attack a person becomes real. WW2 era swords were used and Iban warriors in the UK Borneo 1963 -1966 dispute swords were used. These look nice but not sure they will impress the old guard.

Nearly all swords are made to kill people! :eek:

Marc M. 21st May 2025 11:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen (Post 297530)
I don't think that the hilt is carved from ivory. ;)

Hi Detlef
It is ivory, the Schreger lines are clearly visible.
regards
Marc

David 21st May 2025 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen (Post 297530)
I don't think that the hilt is carved from ivory. ;)

Looks like elephant ivory to my eye. See the cross-hatched lines? I do think this is a bit unusual, which makes this mandau a bot special. Certainly not made for those that travel.

Battara 21st May 2025 06:14 PM

I agree with David on the cross hatching - elephant ivory

Pertinax 21st May 2025 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 297536)
Looks like elephant ivory to my eye. See the cross-hatched lines? I do think this is a bit unusual, which makes this mandau a bot special. Certainly not made for those that travel.

Is there any information about the production of ivory mandau handles in Borneo?

David 21st May 2025 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pertinax (Post 297539)
Is there any information about the production of ivory mandau handles in Borneo?

Never seen any. But Dayak weapons are only a minor interest for me so someone more invested in them might have better information. I only have one in my collection and it's hilt is deer horn. That is probably what the majority of hilts are made from and you will, of course, find wooden ones. I have read that on rare occasion human bone has been used, but i have never seen an example yet. I have never heard of ivory being used, but this very clearly looks like ivory to my eyes and it is certainly a traditional carving. So it seems to be a rarity to me.

A. G. Maisey 21st May 2025 10:45 PM

I agree that the ivory shown here is most likely elephant ivory.

However, ivory from some other animals does also display schreger lines. An expert in this field of ivory identification can in most cases differentiate the source of an ivory, however, in the case of mammoth ivory it can be somewhere between difficult & impossible to be absolutely certain with any identification.

Fossil ivory has been used in Indonesian artifacts in the past, & is still being used in Indonesian carvings today. In Bali a tour of shops, galleries & workshops that sell ivory carvings will almost always identify the ivory carvings being offered as "mammoth ivory".

Pertinax 21st May 2025 11:05 PM

A.W. Nieuwenhuis in his book "Quer Durch Borneo" describes the Dayaks making mandau handles from deer horn.

The Bornean elephant, or Kalimantan elephant, or Borneo dwarf elephant (Elephas maximus borneensis) is a subspecies of the Asian elephant that lives in the northeast of the island of Kalimantan.

Marc M. 22nd May 2025 10:31 AM

I had no idea that ivory is rarely used to make a handle for a mandau. Although the material is available locally, culturally it is apparently not the custom to use it.
Have shown the mandau to a friend who is more familiar with it. He confirmed my suspicion that the scabbards were fairly recent, but the swords seemed older. The quality of the carving is good and the small utility knife has a good patina. He also found that the talismanic figure is of good quality and age.
As in many cultures, the things most exposed to wear and tear are replaced regularly, perhaps with these mandau's the case.
The blade of the mandau with the ivory handle is laminated, not visible in the photo but in the right light and at a certain angle it is slightly visible. I assume the damage to the blade is from use. The flaws present in the steel created during the fabrication process may have been visible but still found good enough to make it a weapon.
Regards
Marc

Marc M. 22nd May 2025 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey (Post 297541)
I agree that the ivory shown here is most likely elephant ivory.

However, ivory from some other animals does also display schreger lines. An expert in this field of ivory identification can in most cases differentiate the source of an ivory, however, in the case of mammoth ivory it can be somewhere between difficult & impossible to be absolutely certain with any identification.

Fossil ivory has been used in Indonesian artifacts in the past, & is still being used in Indonesian carvings today. In Bali a tour of shops, galleries & workshops that sell ivory carvings will almost always identify the ivory carvings being offered as "mammoth ivory".

I suppose a lot of ivory being offered bears the heading ‘mammoth ’ because mammoth ivory is legal to trade. I think it is hard to prove that it is mammoth at the request of customs.
Regards
Marc

Tim Simmons 22nd May 2025 03:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Aussie ans Iban ww2.

Sajen 23rd May 2025 06:14 AM

Hi Marc,

The handle is indeed from ivory, the first mandau I've seen with such a handle. The handle also shows a very nice carving and also a face. Laminated mandau blades are also very rare and seldom seen. In short, you have a great mandau there, I hope Maurice sees this thread and will comment, he is, at the moment, the person who knows as best about mandaus. Great score, congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

asomotif 3rd June 2025 11:34 PM

First time that I see a mandau hilt of ivory ( in over 30 years)

asomotif 3rd June 2025 11:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It would be worth to restore the hilt in my opinion.

The ivory most probably allowed a more detailed carving compared to deer antler.

Marc M. 4th June 2025 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif (Post 297726)
It would be worth to restore the hilt in my opinion.

The ivory most probably allowed a more detailed carving compared to deer antler.

Thank you for your response. Is there any particular reason that ivory was rarely used although the material is present?
I suppose the piece missing from my mandau is similar to your mandau. A restoration might be considered, I have a piece from which it could be made.
Regards
Marc

asomotif 5th June 2025 08:41 PM

Hello Marc,
I do not know if there is a specific reason why ivory is seldom/almost not used in Borneo.
I have only seen 2 objects of elephant ivory before. Both were earrings, and one of the owners was for some reason claiming that it was an ivorine fake. This is the 3rd object of ivory that I have seen. And based on the carving I am sure this is the real deal 🙂
The material is indeed present as in local elephants. And also through trade it must have been possible to get ivory from either Asia or Africa.
Ido notice that elephants do not play a role in the art , myths and religions on Borneo.

asomotif 5th June 2025 08:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Ps. I just noticed that on your hilt, the protruding point at the back is an inserted piece of a different material. Probably antler. I assume the ivory was not big enough to carve this protruding point from one piece.

Ps. Here a picture of a hilt of similar quality to give you an idea about how the missing 'nose' might have looked.

Marc M. 6th June 2025 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif (Post 297750)
Ps. I just noticed that on your hilt, the protruding point at the back is an inserted piece of a different material. Probably antler. I assume the ivory was not big enough to carve this protruding point from one piece.

Ps. Here a picture of a hilt of similar quality to give you an idea about how the missing 'nose' might have looked.

Indeed, I forgot to mention that the piece sticking out is of a different material, probably antler or bone. Do you have an opinion on the blade, apparently a laminated blade is something not common? The flaws in the steel make it of little use anymore. Reason to sell perhaps.

Regards
Marc

Pertinax 6th June 2025 08:41 AM

Mandau hilts were a form of currency in Borneo. If necessary, the owner could remove the hilt from the sword and sell it.

Best regards,
Yuri

asomotif 6th June 2025 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc M. (Post 297758)
Do you have an opinion on the blade, apparently a laminated blade is something not common? The flaws in the steel make it of little use anymore. Reason to sell perhaps.

Regards
Marc

Hi Marc,

Do you have picture of the other side of the blade ?

Roughly / locally forged blades are sometimes referred to as "mantikei".
I have 1 blade in my collection with a similar surface as this one.
They are rare, but I am not sure if they have a special status.

Marc M. 6th June 2025 11:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif (Post 297761)
Hi Marc,

Do you have picture of the other side of the blade ?

Roughly / locally forged blades are sometimes referred to as "mantikei".
I have 1 blade in my collection with a similar surface as this one.
They are rare, but I am not sure if they have a special status.

I read on the forum in an old post that when the men left the village to settle a conflict, the big mandau were taken with them and the small ones stayed in the village to defend it. I also thought I read that the mandau's were kept in the men's house, longhouse. No idea if this is correct, can't find the post again.

Regards
Marc

Marc M. 6th June 2025 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pertinax (Post 297759)
Mandau hilts were a form of currency in Borneo. If necessary, the owner could remove the hilt from the sword and sell it.

Best regards,
Yuri

Hi Yuri, thanks for the info, no idea the handle was/is a monetary value. You do come across loose handles.

Regards
Marc

Pertinax 6th June 2025 03:02 PM

[QUOTE=Marc M.;297764] I also thought I read that the mandau's were kept in the men's house, longhouse. No idea if this is correct, can't find the post again.

A.W. Nieuwenhuis «Quer Durch Borneo»
Ergebnisse seiner Reisen in den Jahren 1894, 1896-97 und 1898-1900; Erster Teil

Chapter VII.

...The main weapons of the Kayan are the sword (malat) and the spear (bakir); the blowgun (se̥put) plays only a secondary role as a weapon; only a few understand how to use it at all, and no true Kayan is capable of collecting and preparing poison for arrows. It is mainly descendants of the Punan among them who prefer the blowgun, the original weapon of the nomadic tribes. The sword, on the other hand, is not only the most important weapon for the Kayan in war, but also the most important item in daily life, rivaled only by the small knife (nju, Fig. h, Plate: Swords of the Mendalam Kayan), which is always carried in a special container on the inside of the scabbard. Any work that cannot be performed with a knife or axe is performed by the Kayan with his sword, which therefore never leaves his hand. When working in the fields, however, he uses a simple sword made for this purpose to chop down branches and undergrowth. However, when on long journeys, he uses his war sword both against the advancing enemy and for hewing boards and chopping firewood. No Kayan takes two kinds of sword on expeditions, but everyone ensures that his own can serve all purposes. Therefore, both at Kapuas and Mahakam, simple but well-crafted blades are generally preferred for serious military campaigns, while the beautiful ones decorated with inlaid copper and silver serve only as highly valued ceremonial objects. Only a warlike chief, such as the Pnihing chieftain Bĕlarè, also took beautifully crafted war swords on expeditions, but he may well have used them to fell small trees...

asomotif 6th June 2025 03:40 PM

As for the monetary system. an interesting book is :

Stranger in the Forest: On Foot Across Borneo

By Eric Hanssen

Het crossed the Island by foot in the early 80's and in that time such a journey still depended on trade items, rather than money.

asomotif 6th June 2025 07:58 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Here some pictures of my mandau which I think qualifies as mantikei.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.