Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   The aesthetic beauty of a patterned blade (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21577)

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:27 AM

The aesthetic beauty of a patterned blade
 
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This thread is to share examples of patterned blades and hopefully some of the more unusual ones.

First one is a Persian wootz blade 16/17th century.

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:28 AM

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Indian khanda blade crystalline wootz steel. 18/19th century.

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:29 AM

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Turkish kilij blade early sham wootz 16th century

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:31 AM

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Finest Indian pattern weld blade 18th century

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:32 AM

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Tibetan hairpin Damascus 18th century

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:33 AM

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Interesting Tibetan dagger blade with "jelly roll" Damascus pattern 19th century

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:35 AM

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Chinese saber blade with twistcore AND a horse tooth hamon

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:36 AM

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Indonesian Keris with unusual twisting pamor. Age unknown

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:38 AM

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Keris blade with cool whirlpool pattern at base. Probably 19th century.

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:39 AM

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Balinese Keris blade with floating islands. 19th century or earlier.

RSWORD 22nd June 2016 01:41 AM

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Balinese Keris with nice pattern. 19/20th century

Battara 22nd June 2016 02:18 AM

I know most of these blades of yours - gorgeous and I'm envious..........

estcrh 22nd June 2016 02:58 AM

Very nice examples, few interesting patterns here.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...4ffa52e5fa.jpg

ariel 22nd June 2016 04:31 AM

Russian site?

estcrh 22nd June 2016 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel
Russian site?

Of course, I am sure you know it.

Gavin Nugent 22nd June 2016 10:00 AM

Neat presentation Rick
 
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Neat presentation Rick, here are some fine pattern on some Keris. If I find the time to bring some swords down from the walls, I'll post some more photos.

First pair is a 25luk Royal Malay Keris, likely Terengganu, note the alternative faces, one face is Malela with no Pamor to note, the reverse is an exceptional and very complicated pamor that is almost Cosmic in appears and runs far deeper and more complicated than these chevrons at the base. Full viewing is private only, please do not ask for complete images, this is my personal choice.

The second is a Bali Keris, again with alternative pamor to each face, now in a private collection. Simple, but at the same time complicated and beautiful.

The third is another I keep here, a very nice shark tooth pamor, likely to be described as horse tooth if it was a Chinese sword. A collector recently had this blade type and pattern copied by a very competent smith who did a nice job in replicating it with a subtle twist and less defined edge patterns. I do love strong bold patterns such as this.

I have others with multiple pamor as time permits.

Gavin

Roland_M 22nd June 2016 03:28 PM

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I hope, these are unusual enough.

It's an old Kilij (wootz), a Saber from somewhere (laminated sheer steel, scarf welded, probably India) and a very beautiful Piso Gading (laminated sheer steel with inserted edge) in an early state of finish. All three blades are unfinished now, because they are long time projects, sorry.


Roland

Oriental-Arms 22nd June 2016 03:51 PM

Turkish ribbon
 
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Two yataghans swords with blade forged in a pattern known as Turkish Ribbon. Several strips of twisted steel rods are forged together to produce this pattern. Usually the blade are forged from 4 - 5 strips. These rare exemplars are made from 6 and 7 strips of twisted steel.

Oriental-Arms 22nd June 2016 03:54 PM

Turkish ribbon
 
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And a Kilij (Pala) sword with 7 strips of twisted steel rods

Battara 23rd June 2016 12:42 AM

SIMPLY AMAZING! :eek:

RSWORD 23rd June 2016 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh
Very nice examples, few interesting patterns here.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...4ffa52e5fa.jpg

Thank you for sharing. I like the window cut outs. Neat way to photograph the patterns. Some very fine patterns in this grouping.

estcrh 23rd June 2016 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara
SIMPLY AMAZING! :eek:

Same here, those are some superb turkish ribbon examples.

RSWORD 23rd June 2016 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent
Neat presentation Rick, here are some fine pattern on some Keris. If I find the time to bring some swords down from the walls, I'll post some more photos.

First pair is a 25luk Royal Malay Keris, likely Terengganu, note the alternative faces, one face is Malela with no Pamor to note, the reverse is an exceptional and very complicated pamor that is almost Cosmic in appears and runs far deeper and more complicated than these chevrons at the base. Full viewing is private only, please do not ask for complete images, this is my personal choice.

The second is a Bali Keris, again with alternative pamor to each face, now in a private collection. Simple, but at the same time complicated and beautiful.

The third is another I keep here, a very nice shark tooth pamor, likely to be described as horse tooth if it was a Chinese sword. A collector recently had this blade type and pattern copied by a very competent smith who did a nice job in replicating it with a subtle twist and less defined edge patterns. I do love strong bold patterns such as this.

I have others with multiple pamor as time permits.

Gavin

Thanks for sharing some examples Gavin. I particularly like the Bugis blade with the fine horse tooth Hamon in addition to the central pattern. Superb!

RSWORD 23rd June 2016 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms
And a Kilij (Pala) sword with 7 strips of twisted steel rods

Thanks for sharing your examples Artzi! Lovely examples of twistcore!

estcrh 23rd June 2016 06:11 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD
Finest Indian pattern weld blade 18th century

This is one of my favorite examples, you can get lost in it.

Gavin Nugent 23rd June 2016 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD
Thanks for sharing some examples Gavin. I particularly like the Bugis blade with the fine horse tooth Hamon in addition to the central pattern. Superb!

Thanks Rick.

I do see how the Malay people and other Keris collectors refer to the pamor as shark teeth as the repeated pattern layering back to the centre looks like rows of shark teeth, where as the Chinese Horse tooth patterns seen to often lack this depth of rows.

Gavin

RSWORD 23rd June 2016 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M
I hope, these are unusual enough.

It's an old Kilij (wootz), a Saber from somewhere (laminated sheer steel, scarf welded, probably India) and a very beautiful Piso Gading (laminated sheer steel with inserted edge) in an early state of finish. All three blades are unfinished now, because they are long time projects, sorry.


Roland

Thanks for your contribution Roland. I really like the Hamon on the bottom example!

Oriental-Arms 23rd June 2016 01:44 PM

good polish and etch
 
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In the mid 90's I visited Jaipur and in one of the arms dealer shops I met an old guy, sitting on the floor, legs crossed, polishing a knife blade with a small stone glued to a short wood stick. Worked very slowly as if he has all the time in the world. I visited the shop every day to watch the polishing process advancing. after a week or so he deep the blade into a bowl with acid for 24 hours. He refused of course to tell me what type of acid he used, just mentioned it is an extract from a natural plant. here is the result. One of the best wootz pattern I have seen.

estcrh 23rd June 2016 05:27 PM

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Here is another type of pattern, it is a Japanese yoroi doshi tanto, 1800s, Gassan school with "ayasugi hada" which looks like a series of undulating rolling waves. Various schools of swordsmiths in Japan were able to replicate the identifying traits of their particular school which they made by manipulating laminated steel billets in various configurations some of which are shown below. Yoroi doshi tanto are an armor piercing blade which are extremely thick at the spine, this one is .5 inches. You can see the lamination on this, it appears to have an two sides of folded steel with a hardened core which can especially be seen at the point of the blade.

benny.lee 23rd June 2016 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD
Chinese saber blade with twistcore AND a horse tooth hamon

Chinese saber blade with twistcore AND a horse tooth hamon


Interested in this.
Are there any more pictures?

RSWORD 24th June 2016 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny.lee
Chinese saber blade with twistcore AND a horse tooth hamon


Interested in this.
Are there any more pictures?

Yes. I posted a separate thread on this sword some time back. You can use the search function to look for threads started by me or with the keyword horsetooth.

benny.lee 24th June 2016 03:25 AM

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I've come to post a picture of two Chinese swords.
In China, their name is “马牙璇焊”

estcrh 24th June 2016 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD
Yes. I posted a separate thread on this sword some time back. You can use the search function to look for threads started by me or with the keyword horsetooth.

Actually the key word is "horse tooth"

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20019

estcrh 24th June 2016 04:18 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by benny.lee
Chinese saber blade with twistcore AND a horse tooth hamon


Interested in this.
Are there any more pictures?

Here is a Chinese sword with a similar pattern from an old post.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=horse+tooth


Now this is something I have not heard about before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip
There is no question that this saber is "the real McCoy" and is definitely not a modern repro.

However, a reader expressed doubts that this technique is used at present, and this post addresses this point only.

Yes, the "machi" (horse tooth) has been made recently by some Japanese smiths, following the tradition of the Gassan (moon mountain) sword school, which was said to have been founded centuries ago by an immigrant smith from China. Also, a contemporary swordsmith named Vincent Evans here in the US has made several Chinese style blades with this same equine dentition.

The Japanese tanto I posted is from the Gassan school, so supposedly there is a connection between the Chinese and Japanese Gassan school which might explain the Gassan wave like pattern , very interesting. Anyone see a similarity in the Chinese and Japanese pattern?

benny.lee 24th June 2016 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh
Here is a Chinese sword with a similar pattern from an old post.

Now this is something I have not heard about before.



The Japanese tanto I posted is from the Gassan school, so supposedly there is a connection between the Chinese and Japanese Gassan school which might explain the Gassan wave like pattern , very interesting. Anyone see a similarity in the Chinese and Japanese pattern?

月山贞一 绫杉肌

Roland_M 24th June 2016 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh
Anyone see a similarity in the Chinese and Japanese pattern?

Yes I do.
I would say, that the forging technique is pretty similar but the japanese Tanto has much more layers.

Interesting link to a recently made Ayasugi tanto:
http://www.themysteryworld.com/2011/...de-out-of.html


Roland

estcrh 24th June 2016 06:00 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M
Yes I do.
I would say, that the forging technique is pretty similar but the japanese Tanto has much more layers.

Interesting link to a recently made Ayasugi tanto:
http://www.themysteryworld.com/2011/...de-out-of.html


Roland

Roland, how did you find that link, simply amazing, I cant believe the amount of work that went into making the steel, the whole process from start to finished blade is really shown here. The video shows that the Japanese physically manipulated the steel billet by cutting into it in order the get the Ayasugi pattern, this is very similar to how some wootz steel patterns were made, I have to assume that the Chinese did something similar when making the twistcore type pattern that is being discussed.



Here is a very good link from Marcus Sesko showing some different Japanese patterns (hada), Marcus has a lot of very informative short essays on many Japanese sword related topics on his site.
https://markussesko.com/2015/05/13/k...gane-jihada-2/

RSWORD 25th June 2016 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny.lee
I've come to post a picture of two Chinese swords.
In China, their name is “马牙璇焊”

Lovely examples! Thank you for sharing.

estcrh 25th June 2016 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny.lee
I've come to post a picture of two Chinese swords.
In China, their name is “马牙璇焊”

Bennie when I search using 马牙璇焊 there are no pictures of swords, is there another word?

benny.lee 25th June 2016 03:18 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD
Lovely examples! Thank you for sharing.

There are some examples
Are all Chinese weapons


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