Jimpul ex.collection W.O. Oldman
 

Is pictured in the catalogue of ethnographical specimes

A BEAUTIFUL JIMPUL :) , DOES IT HAVE COWRY SHELLS IMBEDDED IN THE BEES WAX FERULE? THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING BEFORE ON DAYAK ITEMS. IN A OLD POST I ASKED ABOUT A DAYAK SWORD I HAVE AND IT HAD A SHARP POINTED CURVED BLADE, WE CAME UP WITH THE NAME JIMPUL FOR IT. I HAD THOUGHT THE NAME REFERRED TO THE SHARP POINT BUT AS I NOW SEE MANY WITH THE MORE BLUNT TIP REFERED TO AS JIMPUL INSTEAD OF MANDAU I AM NOT SURE AS TO WHAT SETS THEM APART. IS IT THE CURVED BLADE FORM THAT MAKES IT A JIMPUL AND NOT A MANDAU AND IF THE BLADE IS SHARP POINTED BUT NOT CURVED IS IT A MANDAU AND NOT A JIMPUL?

Vandoo,

The curved blade is caracteristic for a jimpul, but the most important thing to recognize a jimpul is the protusion on the blade near the hilt. The curl on picture 4.

Hi no this is wrong the 3 picture is important for if it is a Jimpul or not.

Albert Zonneveld made a big mistake putting a certan mandua between the jimpuls.

On the Old Iban mandau you can find cowry shells

I will post another one from the Coppens collection that have the same

This is an headmans Jimpul

Dajak,

Another unique and interesting exquisite piece. The inlays looks like it's made from a few different materials. :)

Hello Dayak, what a beautiful toys you have!!! :D I have a question: i see in the last times a lot of mandau swords on ebay, that at my profane eyes, seem all modern or tourist items, but every times at the end of the auctions the price are very high. So can you give me guys, some ideas of what is good and what is a very true fake :D . Thank you

I think I count in another way, Dajak. The protrusion of the second jimpul on the picture is important. It is a kind of guard before the sharp part of the blade begins.
Very nice examples, by the way.

Hi Henk take my word I am just collecting these items only more than 30 years it is the way like I am telling.

The guard use is only by the parang Niabor and some old langai tingai.

HI Flavio

Difficult to say just look at the quality of the blade scabbard handle

and don t forget that high quality mandau s can do these days more than 5 or 6000.00 euro's these pieces you see never on ebay

In a way you are both correct (according to Shelford's definition).
Dajak's comment on the Jimpul not ending in a point is found on all Jimpul.
And Henk's comment on the finger-guard protrusion is usually found on a Jimpul.
But it's not a "must be there" like Dajak's "non-point".

Michael

And here is another ex-Coppen's, the one on page 73 far right.

Michael

Look at the finger guard how can this hold your finger .

by the way an exxelent Jimpul This one was in my friend Richards collection.

look at these pics none off them is a Jimpul so the crowit makes not that it is a jimpul.

The parang Ilang is pictured in the book Quer Durch Borneo 1894 page 150
but has a crowit to Henk schould this be a Jimpul.

The other one Is a langgai Tingai but according to Henk it is a Jimpul.

So this explains why I am saying the crowit makes it not a Jimpul.

And by the pics you can see I am right

A Jimpul has a crowit and the the strange end it needs both to be a jimpul .

I'm not sure exactly what obvious tourist pieces you have seen go for high prices on ebay. I have noticed a few lately that didn't seem to get any bids. But i wouldn't necessarily confuse modern with tourist. I have also noticed some of these newer mandaus. Keep in mind that certain tribes in the inland areas were still taking heads as later as the 1970s, so a relatively modern blade could still be considered authentic (not that it would have to have taken a head to be so :eek: ) . I would imagine that the quality level on authentic pieces would be the tell-tale. I recently posted a mandau that is probably pre-WWII, but no doubt solidly a 20thC piece. It doesn't have the nice age and patina of the pieces Dayak has posted, but it is none the less authentic. :)

that's a cool looking machete! :D I might take it with me on the next head hunting experience though! :D

Hi Nechesh there are mandau s that look like new because they only used at cerimonial purposes .

The most newly made mandau s missing mostly a lot like
carving handle and the forging off the blade is not always like the old style even scabbards are not the way they should be.


I know A grandson From an Dayakhead man who live s overhere that was invited to a special festival in Borneo where no white people or outsiders get close to .
He was seeing there fresh tattoo s on the hands off the Ibans.
This was in the 1980 s I see a lot off pics from him that take you back to the old time. :D :D :D





Or are gifts and never Used

See these pics are givin to our Queens

the one with the bone was giving in 1897 to Queen Emma from the Sultan of
Kutai

The other 2 a gift also from the sultan off Kutai in 1928

Hi Dajak. Your explanation to Flavio's question is certainly just as valid. Since we don't know exactly what auctions he is referring to it's hard to tell. Thanks for sharing more good exaples. I think i may have caught the Dayak bug. Now that i have one mandau i find myself looking for more. :)

why items sometimes look new
 

i would like to add to this wonderfull discussion with very nice pictures that lots of weaponry and statues etc were made for collectors in the 19th century and of course other times. of course this mostly cannot be proven because many collectors have no provenance added. It just says: collected in nias in 1910 by.... this say only were and in what year the piece has been collectedand by whom.
For example: items were made for the great exhibitions in the early 20th century in paris etc and afterwards they dissapeared in museum collections.
Also items that were perhaps 10 years old or less were taken to lets say dutch musea to put in the collection. But since it happenend in lets say 1860 we call it antique but you can have questions if it realy ever was used in the way it is intended.

greetings Ron.

Sorry for my vagueness :o , but for the moment i can't show you any examples. If i will find some others i will post them. Thank you for your answers.

Hi Ron. Certainly an item that was collected in 1860 really is an antique now regardless of how old it was when it was collected. It's not just what we call it. If it's 146 yrs. old it's an antique, period. I also would not discount a dayak headsman sword as not being authentic just because it was collected before it had the opportunity to take any heads. :) If it was made by the Dayak at the time with all the skills and qualities that go into a blade that saw some real use, but was collected or gifted before being used it's still the real thing in my book. Just a mite bit cleaner. :D

Hi nekesh the blade is used off this mandau no doubt about that .

:D :D :D

tattoos on the hands
 

Dajak,

What is the significance of the fresh tattoos on the hands of the Iban at the festival?

Thanks,

Manny

Hi the fresh tattoo s on the hand means that there been taking heads otherwise not allowed to put the tattoo s on the hand.

Dajak, you have a PM

Hi to everybody. What do you think about this? Thank you

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Hi Flavio pieces like these are mostly gifts in the older days
and I know the guy who selling it it.

I can only tell just look good in the books and in the museums and than compare.

Look at old dayak picture s where they carry mandau s.

Look at old collection s so it must be easy for you to find out what piece this is.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Ok Dayak, i understand what you mean ;) I'm very sorry for the buyer. Thank you very much

Ok Dayak, i understand what you mean ;) I'm very sorry for the buyer. Thank you very much

I am not telling I am sorry for the buyer.

I AGREE WITH THE DISCRIPTION ON THE MANDAU IN THE ABOVE PICTURE BUT WOULD POINT OUT THAT IT IS OF MUCH BETTER QUALITY THAN MOST OF THE MANDAU YOU SEE FOR SALE ON EBAY THESE DAYS. MOST HAVE VERY THIN POORLY MADE BLADES LOW QUALITY CARVEING AND NO ATTACHED SHORT HAIR IN DIFFERENT COLOR PATTERNS ON THE SCABBARDS.
A EXAMPLE LIKE THE ONE PICTURED WHILE MADE FOR CEREMONIAL USE OR PRESENTATION HAS A SERVICIBLE BLADE, GOOD CARVEING AND WORKMANSHIP THRU OUT. THEY WERE NOT MADE FOR HEADHUNTING AND DON'T USUALLY DATE TO THAT PERIOD SO WILL NOT APPEAL TO ONE WHO IS ONLY INTERESTED IN THAT PERIOD AND ASPECT BUT ARE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF DAYAK WORKMANSHIP AND ART. MOST OF THE SWORDS SEEN IN THE SHOPS IN KUCHING ARE OF MUCH POORER QUALITY AND ARE FAIRLY RECENT ( SAY WITHIN THE LAST 60 YEARS) BUT THERE ARE SOME STILL BEING MADE THAT HAVE SUPERB WORKMANSHIP AND DON'T LOOK TOURISTY OR NEW BUT THEY ARE FEW AND FAR IN BETWEEN. A COLLECTOR MUST BE VERY KNOWLEGABLE, LUCKY AND HAVE VERY DEEP POCKETS TO COLLECT THE GOOD OLD DAYAK WEAPONS THESE DAYS. I DON'T QUALIFY IN ANY OF THE THREE CATAGORIES SO I MUST BE CONTENT TO LOOK AT THE PICTURES AND THE FEW EXAMPLES I GOT IN THE PAST AND LEARN WHAT I CAN ABOUT THEM.
I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INFORMATION ON WHAT TRIBE AND IN WHAT AREA THESE ARE MADE, I DIDN'T SEE ANY FOR SALE IN KUCHING SO SUSPECT IT MAY BE IN THE INDONESIAN PART OF BORNEO.
I WAS ALSO WONDERING WHAT THE PRICE WAS ON THE MANDAU, ARE THEY USING A COMMA WHERE THEY SHOULD USE A DECIMAL POINT 340.00? OR IS THE PRICE OVER 34 THOUSAND USD, IF SO I TOO FEEL VERY SORRY FOR THE BUYER :(

Hi Barry the price is 340.00 dollar in euro s 285,00 so not to bad for the parang

But it is not an mandau.

A mandau is also made for headhunting and have an amount of magic and mystery is involved by making it without these things it is an Dyak sword and no mandau.

The one on ebay is not an mandau by the dayak rules this can be read page
79 headhunters and woodcarvers from Coppens

THE SUBJECT OF DAYAK WEAPONS SEEMS TO GET MORE COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING :confused: I WAS NOT CLEAR ON WHAT A JIMPUL IS NOW I HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT A MANDAU IS :eek: . IS IT A STYLE OF WEAPON CARRIED BY ONE GROUP, OR IS THE NAME ONLY GIVEN TO ANY TYPE OF SWORD THAT HAS TAKEN A HEAD. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE THE REFRENCE QUOTED. I DID GET A BOOK ON DAYAK WEAPONS BUT IT IS IN GERMAN, NICE PICTURES NOW ALL I NEED IS A GERMAN TO READ IT TO ME :D
I THINK THE PARANG SOLD ON EBAY WAS NOT TOO BAD OF A DEAL AT THAT PRICE AS THEY ARE NOT COMMON AND ARE USED IN CEREMONYS , WEDINGS AND SHOWS BY THE DAYAKS THEMSELVES SO I DON'T CONSIDER THEM AS JUST FOR THE TOURIST MARKET. I SUSPECT IT WOULD NOT BE CHEAP TO PURCHASE ONE WITH THAT DEGREE OF WORKMANSHIP NEW IN BORNEO TODAY.

Hi Barry wich book you have in german I might trade it for a english one if you like.

The "mandau" (parang) on ebay was a nice piece for that money . but it had not the intention t be as a gift or ceremonial weapon.

THE BOOK I HAVE IN GERMAN IS (MALEREI UND TECHNISCHE KUNSTE BEI DEN DAYAKS). BY A. R. HEIN ALSO WITH (INDONESICHE SCHWERTGRIFFE) BY W. HEIN. IT APPEARS TO BE A GOOD BOOK WITH LOTS OF DAYAK DESIGNS ESPECIALLY SHIELDS WITH SWORDS FROM BORNEO, NIAS AS WELL AS OTHER COUNTRYS AND ISLANDS IN THE REGION. I WOULD CERTIANLY TRADE FOR A COPY IN ENGLISH BUT CAN AT LEAST SEE A LARGE VARIETY OF THINGS DAYAK I HAD NOT SEEN BEFORE IT WAS NOT A CHEAP BOOK. I GOT IT RECENTLY ON EBAY FROM MANDAUKUDI AS MOST OF THE GOOD REFRENCES SEEM TO BE IN LANGUAGES OTHER THAN ENGLISH AND I HOPE I CAN PUZZLE IT OUT OVER TIME. IS IT A GOOD REFRENCE OR WOULD I BE BETTER OFF WITH SOMETHING ELSE?

Hi Barry this is an good book and no translation in Enlish so I would keep it

But there is a nice catalogue from Coppens wich is a nice information book,
and the shelford plubication wich can be copyed .

Mandau handle with smoke patina
 

Hello Group:

Have seen in recent times more than several very good quality mandau handles on the sword that have a very old looking smoked patina. Some, of course show up on ebay in the past have this, but they appear to be fake overall. What confuses me is that some really appear to have a smokey patina and are very good quality and old. Is this because they are smoked originally, left in a longhouse and pick it up there and have never been cleaned or what? It seems that most nice dayak mandau have been rubbed or kept clean on the handle. If the rest of the sword is not smoked patina and the handle is; isn't this a little suspicious also?
Appreciate your comments,
Asian Collector

HI Asian collector if a handle is smoked I always suspicious because the handle is the most touched off the mandau .
It can be turned a little yellow from the time but not to dark as the mostly you see. the old man Jimpul is about 150 years old dark in and glossy at the parts that have been touched .

From the oldman cataloque

Here are some nice rare handle s too

Ben

Hi Ben,

here's the Jimpul I bought this week.
didn't she tell you that it had a scabbard?
note the very old brass hook and the ols piece of bone on the belt.

Arjan.

www.thehornbill.com