17thC Scottish Snaphaunce Musket
 

Hi,
First of all I would like to thank Michael (Matchlock) for his time, patience and expertise in helping me with this musket. :cool: :D
I will really have to let the photographs do the talking. A second half of the 17thC Scottish snaphaunce lock with possibly an earlier barrel, almost complete. A "Wee Beauty".
Regards,
Norman.

Hi,
Some more photos of the barrel stamps and the underside decoration around the trigger. Barrel length 31 3/4 inches total length 44 1/2 inches bore just shy of 3/4 inch.
Regards,
Norman.

Ah, great stuff, Norman.
I shouldn't tell you that, affraid you get too vain :rolleyes: .
... But alright, you deserve it ;)

Hi Norman!! Thanks for the PM heads-up. OHHHHHH my goodness. :eek: A "Wee Beauty" is certainly correct. What a fantastic find!! Except for the middle and rear barrel bands, it looks complete. Even the trumpet shaped ramrod. The lock design and partial fishtail butt stock looks sooooo Scottish. :D I must admit that I'm jealous with envy that you saw this gun before I did. :(
Thanks for the great photos. Hope you don't mind me saving these in my photo library? The lock appears complete. The sear assembly seems to be a slight variation from others I've seen. What a wonderful, interesting gun. I'm glad you were able to enlist Michael's expertise on this. Did you locate this gun in Scotland?
Again, my congratulations. A wonderful early piece that just reeks with history. My hats off. Rick.

Just noticed the two holes in the stock. One at the wrist, and the other where the middle barrel band use to be. This indicates that this gun may have had a sling installed at some point in the past? Rick.

Hi Fernando,
Do you think between us we now have enough firepower and shining blades to defend the Lines of Torres Vedras. ;) :eek: :D
Kind Regards,
Norman.

Attention people; we are facing here a well educated Scot ;) :cool: .

Hi Rick,
I thought you would like this one. I must say I never imagined I would ever snag a piece like this. It's really nice to hold and the dark areas on the stock are worn smooth from use. There is a 2 inch difference between where the ramrod reaches down the barrel and the touchhole so maybe it's still loaded!! I did source it locally and it's been lying around in a relatively dry atmosphere, not easy up here, for a long time. I'm of the same opinion re the holes in the stock and I've attached an early decorated plate which if you look closely at the rifle sling it looks to be attached in similar areas. You are very welcome to use any of the photos and if there is any particular ones that you want and are not here just ask. Thanks again for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.

What a fascinating plate. Is it yours, Norman ?

Hi Fernando,
Unfortunately not, found it on the net and I think it it was a sold item from one of the better auction houses but I can't be sure, wish I had taken more note of the provenance. :( I think it may be contemporary i.e. late 17thC.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman. Yes, the gun may indeed still have a load in the barrel. :eek:
Of course, this won't be the first old gun that was aquired still loaded. Since I have the tools needed to safely extract that load (or other obstruction) I suggest you send the gun to my house for analysis and unloading. It shouldn't take me more than a couple years. ;) :D
When you lower the rod into the barrel, does it feel/sound like it's hitting something solid or soft? Rick.

Hi Rick,
Thank you so much for your "very kind offer". :rolleyes: :D It definitely is the soft thud of iron on lead. There are a few muzzleloading wallahs at my rifle club and I know they have the necessary tools to extract an un/misfired load. I would like to get the load out as carefully as possible as in itself it would be really interesting, will have a word tomorrow night and see what I can do. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman

Norman: Oh great!! That sounds very encouraging. (I'm also a muzzle loading shooter). If you have one of those tiny flashlights with a bright white light, you might be able to see the ball? Its sort of a shame having to thread a hole in that original ball, but thats likely the only way you can do it. However, it would be great to see if there is original powder and ball - and maybe wadding - down there. Make sure you save it in a plastic bag. And, of course post pictures!!! Thanks again. Rick.

Hi Fernando,
Found the plate on an American auction house web catalogue. Catalogued as Chinese export plate C1745-50. I think the depictions of the people are a bit earlier and this would probably make sense as Europeans contracted Chinese workshops to make goods, porcelain especially, in the Western taste for sale in Europe ( not a lot changes ). Who knows how old the original artwork was that they were copying?
My Regards,
Norman.

Aye lads!!! That he is!!!
Norman, beautiful example and as always I very much like your approach in learning and sharing your discern in the examples you find. Nicely done on the addition of the plate as well, a powerful reminder that there is no limit to sources for key information in the study of these weapons. Textbook!!!!

All the best,
Jim

Why, thank ye kind sirs. :o ;) :)

Hi Norman,


This sure is a most interesting find for a Scotsman, and quite early as well, and I am glad I was able to lend a helping hand. For a comprehensive description however I should add that it is a composite piece, not belonging together originally and having undergone several alterations, including the sear and spring on the inside of the lock.
As the three holes in the tang, two of which have been riveted, denote the barrel was in at least two other stocks before the present. Additionally, the crude brass filling of the touch hole makes me wonder whether it was only burnt out or maybe worse, and why it was 'repaired' that rudely.
Two iron bands are missing from the forestock, and maybe an additonal band from the muzzle, where a few splinters of wood have gone.
I remember seeing the decorative and wavy (pyrography?) foliage of the stock on other Scottish firearms before but cannot tell exactly where.

I attach a couple of information on Scottish snaphances for the community which I sent you earlier privately.
The first shows a detached lock mechanism, ca. 1670-80, sold Christie's, and the other a long 'ramshorn' scroll but pistol in excellent condition, the pan shield dated 1662, from a dealer's page, and marked sold. The ends of the first lock terminate in the same acanthus-leaf shaped decorative finials as on your musket.

It would be great if an expert in Sottish firearms could identify the now indistinct barrelsmith's (?) marks on the left side and perhaps assign the star-like punched decoration to some locally confined provenance. As I told you, the quadrangular recess above the breech formerly probably held either a dove-tailed back sight or a brass lined mark.

What baffled me at first was the fact that the buttstock of your gun is not of the characteristically bent, bellied and hollowed form associated with most Scottish arms but rather shows an English/Dutch or European musket design. On the other hand, I like the identical design of the top jaw screw and the typical Scottish trigger, without a guard.

Anyway, I attach some characteristic Scottish snaphance guns, all scanned from Howard L. Blackmore, Guns and Rifles of the World, 1965.


Most interestingly, of all these instances only the detached mechanism on top shows the same rectangular piercing above the toe of the cock as your musket, as a rest for the nose of the sear.



Enjoy your find!

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,
I was hoping you would come in with a detailed description. Having had more time to look at the piece I get the impression that the lock may not be the first that has been on this gun. The attached photo suggests to my untrained eye that a large washer or a larger headed screw/bolt was once there but this may be as a result of the screw/bolt being replaced rather than an attachment for a different barrel, as I can see no evidence of a trigger guard ever having been fitted to the stock it gives me more hope that the stock may originally be of Scottish origin rather than continental. I have sent photographs to Mr Jonathan Ferguson curator of firearms at the Royal Armouries who is going to confer with Mr Robert Woosnam-Savage who co-wrote a book on Scottish firearms so hopefully definitive information may be coming soon. Many thanks for your kind words and interest.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

P.S. When I think about it the composition could be any combination of lock,stock and barrel :confused:

Hi Norman,


Agreed: in the worst given case the item may be composite from three different main parts, and the brass-filled touch hole may conceal the fact that the barrel was converted to (and rebuilt from) percussion - in which case the lock cannot belong.
Also the crispness of the surfaces of barrel and stock differs greatly from that of the much better preserved lock, showing that the first two have seem much more use (and abrasion).

Telling from your lines, my intuitive initial premonitions seem justifiable.
From all I have learned in over 30 years of closest study is to be extremely careful as soon as an item does not look completely characteristic in all its single aspects; riveted screws or pins and crude alterations have become amber lights to me: the only explanation is that somebody intended to prohibit others from dismantling the gun for research - which is completely contradictory to the fact that all main parts of a gun must be easy to dismantle in case when cleaning or repair is needed.

On the other hand, you certainly did not overpay the piece, and some of the scans I attached show that trigger guards were used on both English and Scottish snaphaunce guns from the end of the 16th c.


Best,
m

Hi Michael,
Yes, I think it would be wise to 'hang fire' and first see what transpires with the Royal Armouries. There are some possibilities re the less used lock, it does show some scraping on the strike plate so it has been used albeit a little. After the 1715 rebellion and especially after the 1745 all weapons were proscribed by the victors and weapons were destroyed some being concealed and as you know older technology lasted a lot longer in Scotland than south of the border. Could have been little used and then hidden!! who knows time will tell I hope.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

Hi Michael,
Apart from the obvious the lock on this rifle is the closest in details I can see to mine. On a separate note, there are two small square holes, non identical, and two very small round ones in the rear of the butt. Are you aware of this style of butt occasionally having a separate buttplate maybe attached with hand made square nails, or could it have been a butt extension as we have these days for different sized shooters. Being a regular shooter I know just how important this sizing is. Just some thoughts.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,


Butt plates did not normally appear before the 1580's on European military muskets, and they were made of very thin hammered iron attached not by nails but by tacks, with small, irregularly shaped but mostly rectangular heads.

Attached are details of a very fine German (Suhl) matchlock musket, ca. 1590-1600, overall length 1.67 m, weight 8.4 kgs, preserved in as-new condition; author's collection.

Only during the first half of the 18th c., butt plates got thicker and more figured, made of either iron or brass - depending on the material employed for the rest of the mounts.


Best,
Michael

Got it ? :cool:

Hi Michael,
Photo of the rear of the butt. Got it too, iron butt plates used to protect the wood rather than an aid to shooting. :)
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. You can see where the bottom edge has been knocked off at some time and repaired.

Yeah,

These look like tack holes.

m

Hi Michael,
Just a thought looking at your lovely matchlock. Is the stock on my musket of a type that may have been used for a matchlock prior to the present configuration. Could explain the lack of trigger guard evidence rather than a particularly Scottish connection which would make your Dutch/English idea re the stock more likely. Could have been rehashed up here so still no trigger guard.
My Regards,
Norman.

Great :)
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman! And Michael! This has been a great Thread to read. Really enjoying this. Thank you both. A couple of notes:
The brazing at the touch hole area is curious. Could it be that the barrel was used on a previous gun? The current gun and lock combination requiring the vent hole in a different position? But, as Michael said, it is curious that it was done so crudely. Hmmmmm. :shrug:
Norman: If you have an opportunity would you let me know some dimensions? Overall length, barrel length and caliber, lock length and width, etc. Only if you get the chance. Thanks. Rick.

Hi Rick,

I have posted all my assumptions concerning the history of the barrel and lock, and Norman has given some measurements in post # 2.

Best,
m

Hi,
I have now received a reply to my enquiry from the Royal Armouries in Leeds. British snaphaunce C1700 based on lock style and barrel, what appears to be London private proofmark on the barrel C1702 although I get the impression that this is probably open to conjecture. Clearly not classically Scottish therefore not necessarily Scottish. The Scottish aspect is obviously not provable either way but I would like to think, based on info already received, the possibility is there. :) I'm in the process of arranging the removal of what I think is a ball and charge still in the musket with a muzzleloading member of my rifle club and I will post the results. I am delighted to have this piece in my collection regardless of pedigree and I would like to thank you all for your kind words and continued interest. Should any further information come to light I will of course let you know.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. A light application of gun oil and 'hey presto' the lock is working just fine sliding pan cover and all. :cool: :)

Norman: Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

Michael: Don't know how I missed that in the second Post? :o

Thanks, Rick.

Pneumatic un-loader for flintlock. In case you and your associates are interested. Rick.

Hi,
Attempts to remove whatever is in the bore have so far been unsuccessful but this piece of material, wadding?, and what might be small pieces of hard 'grease' was attached to the screw upon withdrawal. I would appreciate your opinions on it. I will make a tool with a deeper thread and have another go!
Regards,
Norman.

Keep going mate.

This looks like the same flaxen material used in the maufacture of old sword canes. Perhaps this is part of an old late 19th/early 20th century method of deactivation.

Gav

Hi Gav,
You could be right, don't know whether it is an old 'de-ac' plug or a ball and charge. Never having had a sword cane what is the flaxen material used for? Thanks for having a look.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman. As Gav said: "keep going" !! This does indeed look like tow, especially with the remenants of hard greese. Hmmmm. Assuming for a moment that there is still a ball and powder in the barrel, this tow may have been inserted on TOP of the ball to act as a moisture repellant? while carrying. Just a thought. But yes, please keep us updated. I'm so curious to see if there is indeed a load in the barrel. Thanks again, Rick.

Hi Norman,


This indeed looks to me like the drilled-out remains of a heavily cup-grease felt wad inserted as a conservative treatment by a curator of some arsenal in the 19th c.
I have often seen these and at least one is preserved in perfect condition in my collection.

How far back of the muzzle did you locate it and was there any sort of load right behind it?
If it was inserted after the gun's active service it should have been set close to the muzzle - as sort of a dust plug.


Best,
m

Hi Rick,
A few outcomes possible here, let's hope it is an interesting one. :cool: Will keep you posted.
My Regards,
Norman.


Hi Michael,
This material was gathered form inside the barrel about 6.5cm in front of the touchhole so well down the barrel and not near the muzzle. There is a harder substance behind it and by the clunk of the ramrod it sounds like lead, whether a ball or a plug I don't know. I am in the process of making a tool to extract the 'lead' if indeed it is possible to get it out. Will let you know soon how I get on. Thanks for your continued interest.
My Regards,
Norman

Hi,
A little update. I decided to insert a cocktail stick into the touchhole just to see if the 'blockage' went all the way, should have done this before. :o The area is free of any obstruction and I can hear the distinct rasp of grains!!! when moving the cocktail stick. As you can see the end of the stick is black and it smells of gunpowder, see photo. :D Am going to the tool store tomorrow so I hope to get a few bits to aid in the extraction process. Thanks for your continued interest.
Regards,
Norman.

They were firing their Sporrans at us pesky English!