Manuscript obout 15 century firearms
 

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...33b/1r/x-large
Zürich
Zentralbibliothek
Shelfmark: Ms. Rh. hist. 33b
Manuscript title: War technology (Illuminated Manuscript)
Caption: Paper · 168 ff. · 30.0 x 21.0 cm · Upper Rhine · about 1420-1440
Manuscript summary: This codex contains a rare illuminated manuscript constituted entirely by illuminated pages, for each of which only a succinct caption is given, most often only a line of text, and which therefore provides exceptional historical image-sources for numerous domains. The pictures presented here of military technology were perhaps originally part of a medieval house book. A typical collector’s item, this illuminated manuscript underscores the collection character of the Rheinau conventual library, whose librarians and abbots were expressly on the lookout for rare books.

Michael, may You translate this inscription? Unfortunately I don't understand in German Gothic fonts

Great find as always, Alexander. :cool:

Here is the link to a better overall view:

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...0033b/1r/small

I must get re-adjusted to South German/Swiss dialect in the early 1400's, then I might be able to give you some clue. The main problem with all manuscripts is to get used to the individual writer's 'hand' ...

Best,
Michael

We can see the typical medieval lathe for wood, but I can't anderstand what is turner doing...
p/s
Michael, please, look ALL pages. There are many interesting for You. There are a lot of information about early firearms

I know, Alex,

Please allow a few days ... :D

P.S Did you have a White Christmas in St. Petersburg? ;) In Bavaria, we didn't ...

m

I'm facing some serious difficulties finding the correct mansuscript title and accessing it for more information.
Could you help me, my friend?
m

No, we haven't. It is too warm.

What can I help You? I just know that title is Kriegstechnik :shrug:

The problem is: on their web site, no enters seem to be accepted ... :o

How did you find it?

Wow, that's quite something, like a primer on siege warfare, making gunpowder, various kinds of firearms, incendiary weapons, petards, scaling ladders, etc. etc. plus some pages I can't connect with the other subjects. One is a woman washing another woman's hair, I think. What I can't figure out is where this has been throughout history until, what, 1950? I'll have to check "Quellen zur Geschichte der Feuerwaffen" as some of the devices look somewhat familiar. But "Quellen..." dates from late 19th C., well before this codex was generally known, I think?

There's a very complex (for the time) twin-cylinder water-powered pulverizing mill shown, which I would not have thought would have been availabile at that time.

John,
There have been several predecessor illustatrions before the 1430's, especially the one by Konrad Kyeser or Eichstätt, 1405. So all these illustrations of devices more or less duplicated themselves thoughout the 15th c. and hardly any news can be expected before the Maximilan Zeugbücher ot the early 1500's.

m

Hallo,

I was able to read the text, except of two words.
In German:
Da macht ein Dreyer(Dreher) Kerzn(Kerzen, Fackeln).......
er Dir Din(deine) Pfil(Pfeile)machen sol(soll)
In English:
Here a turner makes torchs.....
he should make you your arrows

Regards
Susi

Susi, thanks! I often run into people who sincerely believe the lathe was not invented until about the 18th C if not later. This should shut them up.

Did you see the illustation of the woman with the "earmuffs" hairdo doing something to another woman's hair (or something like that?) I'm not sure how that relates to military technology but if it is easy to read and you could find it easily, what does that one say? Each image takes a long time to load here, which is why it is impractical for me to find the number. Is there an index or thumbnal gallery of any kind with this codex?

Lathes appear about 600 year b.c.

Thanks Spiri. You must be familiar with the Museum of Artillery and Engineer Troops nearby. I love old artillery but was unaware of that great museum until I found the X???? website with many photos about 8 years ago.

If you have photos that are different from those on the website, particularly any of the more elaborate items, I know they would be welcomed on this site.

I missed a wonderful model that once belonged to Potemkin, had his coat of arms cast into the barrel and repeated in paint on each side of the carriage, at auction. I was "underbidder" sadly. It was antique, original, and in great condition. As I recall it was about 50 cm long, total.

Here are some larger ones identical to the smaller one I was trying to get.

http://www.stephenwoodresearch.com/port/pot01.htm

As I said there are many similar books from the early to the late 1400's, and one author copied from the other.

Best,
m

Over here in my home town the skies are pure blue and the sun is shining for the last two weeks.
8º at 10 am (when i get up ;) ) and 16º at noon.
How's that for Christmas ? :eek:

Hand cannon stocks? :eek:

What a pity these manuscripts don't come with 'readable' legends ... definitely a tremendous added value

Maybe you missed it when Susi said the caption mentioned the turner was making torches. I assume those would be to illuminate when night work was required such as repairing battered walls, throwing up siege lines, etc. Wonder if those could also have been used as early portfires which provided the flame to ignite slowmatch or tinder for cannon and arquebus firing? Historians seem to be at somewhat of a loss for what means was used to keep live fires on the battlefield for that purpose.

What is the cones on the box? Is it possible that this cones is charges or wooden wads?

Surely interchangeable wooden charges for the torchs, filled with beeswax or tallow or other slow burning substance.

Susi

I think they are.

m

The most interesting images:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large
Look at the last picture. There are something look like drill. Can somebody translate this? I would be great to translate all this titles

Hi Alexander,

On the quick I cannot decipher everything but I hope Swordfish can help a lot! ;)

1. Der kunst macht wol gewissen, ... läuft man (?) gefahr verdorben pulver mag schiessen.
Although you may be sure of your command of the art, the danger remains to fire foul powder.

2. Wie man blos machen soll, macht den dreier nicht wol?!

3. Die puchsen stain sint gut, der fy ...?
The stone balls are of good quality, ...?

4. Der p? ist nicht verloren, wo du vil ? sollst machen?

5. Die gesellen mit der puchsen pehent schiessen wellen.
The guys intend firing their guns properly.

Swordfish, are you there?

Best,
Michael

First one: "Hans, haven't I told you a hundred times not to prime the hot cannon with a full flask of gunpowder!" (aber meine Deutsch is sehr schlecht)

This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them:

"If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes."

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...33b/68v/medium

For quicker access to these, go to dropdown menu on top entitled "view" and select thumbnail or another of your choice, In the line of black rectangles, selecting smallest will cause much faster downloading.

Sorry John,

I clearly beg to differ. It cleary reads kunst and verdobn pulver!

m

[QUOTE=cannonmn]This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them:

"If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes."


That's right, John,

The Medieval German text reads 'Wilst über wasser gan, leg dy (dir) schurh an'.

[QUOTE=Spiridonov]The most interesting images:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large

Here are the images.
m

Alexander,

As you asked: this seems to be water-driven drill although the text does not actually seem to refer to it.

m

For the tiller arquebus in the last ms illustration, please see the following Vienna illustrations of 1410 and 1411 respectively, and the original arquebus of ca. 1400 preserved in my collection, the mechanism and hook added ca. 1430-1440 (attachments). This is the oldest known completely preserved handgun, even retaining its original tiller stock.

Please note that guns of the early 1400's did not yet have hooks, they did not seem to appear before the 1430's.

m

I can read the text,but the meaning is indistinct.

Der püx (die Büchse)ist nicht verloren/ wo du vil Düchel(alemannisch für hölzerne Wasserleitung) solt parzn(südtirolerisch für aufstämmen)

Briilliant, Swordfish,

I have some difficulties with Alammisch and Swiss dialects.

I canot give a meaningful translation of what you deciphered either.

Best,
Michael

I would be happy to put captions on any that have no captions shown. Or any that do, for that matter, but it will be an interpretive caption and not a translation.

I couldn't seem to find it again but one of the drawings showed two people and a fortification. Both people (perhaps women?) had what appeared to be flaming fingers on one hand, held so fingers were pointed up. What's the story behind that one?

John,

May I ask you to identify the exact link to that illustration?

I will be happy then to you give you my interpretation.

m

Michael, thanks. Here are the burning finger extensions:


http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...33b/50v/medium

Sorry, John,
I must quit on that.
I'm sure though that Swordfish can decipher that.
Best,
Michael

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...id=80500&stc=1
It looks like tool for extracting bullet and wad... I don't think that it is a drill. Somebody can translate the title?

Hi Alexander.

The title, as I said before, reads

Die Gesellen mit den Puchsen behent schießen wellen, meaning The guys wish to quickly fire their guns.

Thus it gives no clue to the various illustrated actions in the picture but you are doubtlessly correct: this guy is shown extracting a wad or a bullet with some kind of a threaded extractor.

You noticed a few 16th/17th extractors for using in the treaded iron finial of the ramrod im my collection when you were here! ;) See attatched image, on the right hand side.

Best,
Michael