Philippines Ethnographic Weapons Museum
 

It is apparent this forum has a significant number of Philippine ethnographic weapon enthusiasts, not to mention expertise. There are lots of talented people in this forum, sharing a common interest in preserving artifacts of history and culture.

It is also apparent that the diversity in form of Philippine ethnograhic weapons is wide - enough to sustain interest. The volume of available specimens is also huge - enough to fill a medium sized museum.

Just thinking out loud ... maybe it is time to ponder on the idea of putting up a museum in the Philippines, that is dedicated to ethnographic weaponry - with expertise largely coming from Forum members.

I would like to solilcit the opinion of Forum members on this idea.

Nonoy, I'm with you :)

Hullo everybody,

I agree, in principle. My main concern is security/preservation/maintenance. This topic was touched on elsewhere in this forum, in a current thread (posted by freebooter, I think).

Best,

Just recently the National Museum in Manila opened up "The War and Dissent" exhibit...the entire focus is of the early US colonization of the Philippines from 1898 to 1915. This is a temporary exhibit that will run from Dec to March 2010. It would be great to start off something similar to this in the Philippines with the help of the National Museum. First as a temporary exhibit, and if it is successful, then possibly as a permanent exhibit. Maybe feature weapons similar to the display at the Macao exhibit. Other museums that may be interested to help with a weapons exhibit would probably be the Lopez Museum and the GSIS Museum. GSIS is the government building that houses several paintings and historical artifacts...plus they are located on government grounds for added security. :)

http://waranddissent.com/
War & Dissent (The U.S. In The Philippines, 1898-1915) is an exhibit presented by the Lopez of Balayan, Batangas Foundation and in partnership with the National Museum of the Philippines and Fundación Santiago, this exhibition was produced by the Presidio Trust, Presidio of San Francisco, California, Golden Gate National Parks.

Perhaps a good theme to portray is the diversity of the Filipino arms (and the warriors and cultures from whence they came from) and also all the different groups that resisted the Americans... from the Filipinos in Luzon to the Pulahan and Dios-Dios in the Visayas, and then the Moros in the south. And also to make clear distinctions between the different cultures, tactics, warriors, etc.

I am sure that this idea of putting up a dedicated museum is not new. However, it has remains a dream up to now.

Whether or not the discussion on this topic, will bear immediate fruit is not very important at this point, in my opinion. The fact that we are able to document this discussion in this Forum - for others to read - is already a step forward. Readers will be able to gain information and insights from this discussion, from where to possibly develop a feasibility study, and push the idea another step forward.

I think that long-term sustainability of the museum is the main issue, and not so much the technical aspects (e.g. museum management, collections management, etc.). These technical matters can be adequately addressed if the museum is able to generate sufficient internally generated revenues as a private organization (i.e. not government owned or controlled).

nonoy,
i believe this is an excellent idea! the sustainability will indeed be the primary issue, for i really hope that these heirlooms will hopefully remain with us for generations to come. perhaps, an exhibit dedicated to this weapons for a couple months similar to, or perhaps, as an addendum to the current War and Dissent Exhibit dimasalang mentioned just to see how successful it will be.

philippine museum on line
 

hai
i am new on this thing
but let me try
i did think why no start a philippine weapon museum on line ?
some of the members could put photos of there best examples
on it ,this whit there info on the weapon
i like to see what other members of this forum think
please let me know
a grt to all
jan :)

Hi Jan,

Welcome to the forum....
uhhhmm....I am still waiting for your photo's....:D

Groet,
Maurice

jan, that's a great idea.

in a way, this forum has been serving already as a virtual museum.

but a dedicated website for philippine sandata (ethnic weapons) is surely nice to have (or websites of any other country's weapons for that matter).

as for the physical museum, that's also good to have of course, as nothing beats appreciating an object in 'person'.

in any case, your comments are much appreciated.

dear all --

as for the care of donated weapons to this proposed museum, i think it's a matter of housing the weapons in an appropriate museum.

obviously a typical museum uses a "shotgun" approach, that is, it tries to cover every ethnic object.

thus the museum being proposed by nonoy has to have focus on ethnic weaponry, for the proper care of the objects to be had.

alternatively, it can be a 'museum' that's part of an existing institution (e.g., the philippine national museum), but with a dedicated staff and financial grant ...

Nonoy, in another thread I posted about "other" museums in the Philippines. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=32 I would hate to see a small privately owned museum being handled by folks who may just turn around and walk out with the weapons...which is why I would definitely recommend to seek one of the larger well established museums for help. Generating any type of revenue would be tough as well...given the average price for entrance in to a museum can be anywhere from free to $2US(for adults). Just something to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forum! :D

Starting a webpage is a great idea as well. Maybe go further and establish a named organization made up of the members here and then build the site. That would give some creditability and seriousness to the cause and what we aim to do...and all the while it would be a club where we get to enjoy each others weapons.

This forum has a wealth of information and some seriously rare/unique/exquisite examples. I am happy to have found this place, as it gives me insight and allows me to see, what I believe to be, works of art from my country that I have never seen before, never heard of, or never even would have imagined existed. Thanks to all the members here for sharing! As mentioned previously, the only problem is some of these examples are in old posts dating back several years, and you would have to search/dig for them, some I would almost say were lost in unrelated threads. A webpage would organize everything...having everything listed with info and threads from this forum linked to the webpage for further detail and research. :)

Dimasalang, I'm actually presently fooling around with such a concept.

Please see this blog I've just started, Filhistory.com.

It's nowhere anywhere near what you've described. But I'm trying to get there.

For starters, I've posted all the Macao exhibit pieces, then I followed it up with the Krieger plates. Currently, I'm posting some of the pieces I've collected.

My next step is to post also the pieces sold by Artzi and Erik (Farrow). A million thanks by the way to Artzi and to Erik (don't know if Erik is here), for granting me permission to use their pics in my website.

My only problem is time! Work gets in the way you see ;) Like for the whole month of November I was not able to post anything (and December may end up the same).

Anyway, if you (or the others) can put up a similar or better website, then the more the merrier ...

PS - I respect a lot intellectual property rights. Thus on a best efforts basis, I always indicate if available the source of the photos I post in that blog :)

Developing a virtual museum is a fantastic idea.

So, is having a physical museum... depending on the museum's objectives or purpose.

What do you think should be the primary objectives? From there, it becomes easier to make rational choices.

I agree with Dimasalang. I was warned about this possiblity at the Antiques Road Show when it came into town.

However a virtual museum is an excellent idea for now and can be accessed by all. Many of my pieces were in the Macao exhibit and the others can be seen on this forum. (though posting them again for the virtual exhibit would be fine by me :) ).

A virtual museum sounds like a great idea. If there is anything in my collection that would be of interest just let me know and I will be more than happy to furnish pictures.

Robert

On the idea of a virtual museum, I suggest we support this effort.

I would hate to see the loss of the weapons, too. I believe that this is an issue that can be addressed by proper governance of the museum (by the Board of Directors), and control systems (by museum management).

The larger museums, I believe will help especially in providing technical assistance, and maybe having a seat in the Board if an ethnographic weapons museum is consistent with their objectives. Certainly, these larger museums also have weapons in their collections. However these are kept in storage ... maybe because it is not their focus and have to allocate limited resources to many other objects of historical and cultural importance.

Indeed, it is a major concern. I believe that is a function of professional management and governance... and of course, sustainability,i.e. having access to funds that will sustain the museum.

Hi Jan,
welcome to the forum! I like the idea of an online musem, great suggestion!
Detlef

lets work on it to get it done
 

hai brothers
i see many of us like the museum,great
lets see how we can do it
i mineself have no expirense with computers
but i think is great to have all krisses on line
all on type and on time and place of origin
also could be a stand against fakes atc.
and if we have many on line we could try to make a
timeline and see the evolution of the kris
and the connection between the philippine kris and the
others.
so if one of you ,that is a light in computing knows how
to start this please let me know
for now a greet jan the vampire :) :) :)

Someone will have to acquire a Server to host the Museum .
There will be regular costs associated with this which would have to be paid for . :shrug:

:eek: www.filhistory.com :cool: An outstanding effort and very intensive work. I like the ideas being thrown around and if I can help in any way, please ask.

Gav

Hi Rick,

What would be the specs of the server and software?

Thanks,

Nonoy

I've no idea Nonoy .
There are numerous hosting companies on the web .

I would guess costs to host a simple on line museum might cost a few hundred a year .. :shrug:


Price would probably be determined by the amount of Server space used .

how we do it
 

here me again
oke hire a sever but than ,ever one will try to put his things
on it
there must be some one that is a revery
because if every one puts his things there with his story
it wil be wild west
i think it sould be on type of wapon first
than on provincince , with a time line
also there sould be place to show things that are similar
from other asian countries
and also i think i should be a clean historical centre
i mean no people try to sell some thing
oke any input of data photos of dealers is oke

he but who the hell i am i
you and you let me know what you think

for now have a good night
the vampire :) :) :)

After viewing Miguel's site I think he's got a great start underway .

I would suggest working with and adding to his site rather than start a whole new one .

school or museum
 

maybe being european ,i feel there is a difference
between a school site and a museum site.
for years we need a site to see what there is and
what is real ,and also to show what is fake
because if all things on a museum site ,have a record
and a style ,we all can see what is from our historical past
and what is made by many dealers on ebay
that is what i think .
a site like a handbook is nice ,very nice but not what many
here have in mind
we will see , we will see
jan smit amsterdam holland netherlands
the vampire :cool:

Indeed, the site by migueldiaz is a step forward.

I am willing to lend my collection.

Hey guys, let us give him the support!

Before we all start uploading detailed images of our collection up to any website we should all think about how to make the images secure. Your actual weapons are not going to walk out this virtual door, but unless you want to see all of our nice toys ending up as fake auctions on eBay we must be sure that software is in place that prevents the images from being easily lifted off the site or we will see someone trying to take advantage of our good work somewhere. The image below was a simple click-and-drag off Miguel's site.

good point david
 

hai
david
i think you made a very good point
realy very good
i did not think about that and there are already
to many fakes on ebay and more
but how to protect the photo
also there is a negatieve
grt jan
the vampire :) :) :)

Rick, many thanks for the comments :)

As for David's comment regarding the possible malicious use of the images, I also agree that that's a concern.

Earlier, I was thinking of putting a watermark emblazoned diagonally across the image, to deter any misuse. On the other hand, I also realized that I'm not Magritte (paintings below) who can make use of such technique, as artistically ;)

Let me make further comments, separately, re David's concerns ...

David, many thanks also for your comments :)

For sure that's everybody's concern (but on second thoughts, wouldn't that be the greatest compliment, one's piece being peddled by somebody else on eBay, assuming of course the scammer has good taste ... just kidding).

Seriously speaking, it's actually a very tough issue and I think there'll be no 100% safe solution.

I googled the subject. And one article after rattling through the (technical) solutions concluded with this --

"If your image is so valuable that you want to be sure no one ever steals it, then don't post it online. That is the securest and safest method of protecting your digital images."

On the other hand, one must keep on trying of course (see options below).

The best solution so far is via a subscription service with Digimarc.

The service allows one to invisibly put a signature on the images. And then the most expensive option will give one a periodic report of where the image is being used elsewhere in the Internet.

Obviously the main disadvantage of this service is that it's very expen$ive!

PixID is a similar service and I'm sure it will also cost an arm and a leg.

So where does this leave us?

I think the good old watermark will still be it. And we can add to that our own respective style when we take pics. Like Oriental Arms always has that blue background, on top of watermark. Erik's Edge would have that brown background always.

In my case, I always use as backdrop that ethnic weaving (though I'm struggling with this, as I know that the background I use is a distraction, as you also pointed out earlier).

And I guess more importantly, the "community" will just have to be vigilant.

That's all I can think of at the moment ...

Well, there is one particular Bali keris on Eriksedge.com that i have personally seen for sale on eBay 3 different times. :rolleyes:
That said i don't think watermarks or tracking is the answer. I know i have been on sites that simply do not allow me to click-an-drag images to my desktop. I don't know what software they use, but it can't be that expensive to set up. :shrug:

That's what I was thinking also David .
I have encountered that feature myself .

Any one know about this software ?

Man, they are relentless aren't they? :) And considering that one is born every minute, I guess they'll never run out of 'customers'.

They can prevent the click-and-dragging of the pic for sure. But that really won't prevent the pic from being copied :)

It just takes 2 to 3 seconds more, to copy the pic --

[1] if pic can be clicked-and-dragged, in one second or less it's done;

[2] if the above technique or right-clicking the pic has been disabled, then it takes me just 2 to 3 seconds more to copy the pic (and it's no secret: the technique is via screen capture, which takes just a few keystrokes).

But as said, the effort to make it difficult for would-be scammers must still be made.

So here's the long and short of it according to this website:

:: How To Copy-Protect Images ::.

Most people know that they can steal an image from the web by right-clicking on it and selecting "save image as." Be forewarned though - You may be downloading an image that contains a watermark and might be confronted if you use it on your site. If you would like to protect your own images, this article explains a few measures you can take.

There are three main methods that you can use to protect your images on the web:

JavaScript Method

This method essentially captures the "right-click" mouse event and runs a JavaScript that informs the person that the images on the page are copyrighted and not available for download. This method would not prevent the person from doing a "screen capture" to get the image.

Watermark Method

This method allows you to add a digital watermark or signature to each of your images. The watermark is invisible to the naked eye, but can quickly be retrieved using a watermark reader. Additionally, some services (like Digimarc) will search the web for your images and generate a report for you so that you can confront the offender. Watermarking doesn't prevent someone from copying an image, it simply makes tracking down the offenders possible.

Adobe ImageReady (that ships with Photoshop) includes a filter to watermark your images (after you register and get a PIN number from Digimarc).

Software Method

Specialized software that walks you through protecting your images. Weblock Pro will even protect your web page source code.

And here's another primer. But at the end of the day though, it's all in vain ;)

If anybody can show me a website where he/she thinks the image cannot be copied, then I'd gladly point out how it can be easily circumvented (via the screen capture method, that is).

A good point. I have seen my weaponry on many Filipino sites so far, even on the cover of a Filipino published book! (I got nothing, not even a mention on it :mad: ). Posting on the web means giving it free on the streets. :rolleyes:

For images, watermarking.. something like what Ashoka Arts is doing is good, www.ashokaarts.com

What ever method is used to capture the image, the watermark will remain. As users, you can still see the image properly. But if the image is used elsewhere the source would be known. Of course you can do a digital clean-up of the image, but it will be time consuming and traces of the watermark can still be found..

The image rights issue will definately take some working out, and there is apparently software that will stop image theft, but it requires a plugin so it may be of dubious value (who wants to install a plug-in to view a web page?). Also costs $500. More info on that here:
http://www.artistscope.com/copysafe_web.asp

For simplicities sake, I think the watermark might be the most reasonable option. There will always be some unscrupulus people, but I don't think we should let them ruin things for the rest of us.

I'd love to see an online museum and would gladly offer photos of my humble collection. I'd like to share an idea with you about an online "museum" of sorts in hopes of moving the conversation forward. I had this idea for a visual map interface a while ago and have spent some time sorting through the details, but I'll keep it brief here:

My idea was to have an online map of the Philippines where a user can hover over a region and see the local weapons there and follow links for more detailed information. Usage: you would hover your cursor over the map and you get a little pop-up window (or a sidebar display). In this pop-up you get a list of regional weapons. The user can select one of the weapons from the list and get a page that shows further examples (member provided) and has a little write-up on that style of weapon (bolo, kris, etc.). The write-up might be general or it could be region specific depending on the type. You could also include a link to search in the EEWRS forums.

I do have some experience doing this sort of thing and could offer some help (the idea was inspired by cubicle farm map I did for a former employer). I hope this gets those creative wheels churning and people offer their ideas as well.

I really like that idea tc .
With all the islands and tribes of the Philippines this feature would really tie the whole thing together .

Battara, thanks for your comment :)

I was just thinking, could it be that sometimes people just don't know who to attribute the photo to? Also, I may own the sword but if somebody else took the photo, I think the intellectual property right of the photo would belong to the photographer and not to the owner of the sword.

But I'm not 100% sure about those subtleties, so please (anybody) correct me if I'm wrong.

For me in my website, I just adopt the practices under the "fair use" concept -- I create a link to the source webpage, and explicitly cite the website's name as much as possible.

I do know that for example if a certain photo (in the Macao exhibit website) has a file name "JCA-xxx.jpg", then that's Battara's. But since I'm not sure whether the sword owner wants his name mentioned (e.g., privacy issues), then I don't dare put the name of the owner.

On the other hand if the sword's pic will be given to me directly by the owner, then what I'll do is directly attribute the pic to the owner.

Just thought that I mention the thought process of any blogger whenever he encounters a picture he'd like to post in his website.

By the way, if I can go back to the US sometime late 2010 or early 2011, I hope you'll allow me to visit you for me to see your most excellent 'puppies' :)

Thanks for the comment. I still feel that putting the watermark right smack on the image itself (vs. putting the watermark on the margin), makes the sword photo less attractive. But on the other hand, I also understand that it's an effective way of foiling the use for bad purposes. So yes, for me watermarking is the way to go, too.

I agree that it's a great idea. Maybe another website can be put up to have that user-friendly feature.

For the website I'm developing, I think such format will not be allowed as I'm using a blogging service (Typepad) which has a cut-and-dried template that does not allow great flexibility.

But it's also best that there are several websites on Filipino weapons instead of just one or two or three, etc. That way if one goes down, there will still be others who can continue to provide the service.

Just my two cents :)