Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Kopis/Κοπίς & Makhaira/Μάχαιρα (Greek & Etruscan) (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28497)

Teisani 9th January 2023 11:04 AM

Kopis/Κοπίς & Makhaira/Μάχαιρα (Greek & Etruscan)
 
For about a year, I have been interested in the Greek kopis and similar forward curved sword from the Etruscans (I include these Etruscan swords in this thread because of limited number of specimens found). Of course, the falcata is also similar, but I believe it warrants a standalone thread, even though I am among those people that it evolved from the kopis, and not that it is a paralel development).

I invite anyone to post pictures and information (or just express opinions) about these swords. My one request is that we keep it strictly to historical pieces/period depictions. No reproductions please.

Teisani 9th January 2023 11:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
1 - “Barbarian Cleavers or Greek Swords? Portrayals and Perceptions of Curved Swords in Ancient Greece” - Catherine Parnell, B.A., M.A. (Ph.D. candidate, School of Archaeology, University College Dublin) March 2012

Quote:

This lecture is concerned with ancient Greek curved blades commonly known as ‘kopis’ or ‘machaira’. It presents the results of surveys of the iconographic and literary evidence, and examines the portrayal of the various types of curved blades, as well as the differing perceptions of this morphological shape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aItn...MFQzIGvpUF9WBs

Here is her Ph.D. https://www.jstor.org/stable/48601881

Teisani 9th January 2023 11:55 AM

4 Attachment(s)
2 - The Ancient Greek Kopis and Machaira - Catherine Sara Parnell (Trowel Volume XII 2010, pages 120-129)

https://trowelucd.files.wordpress.co...trowel-xii.pdf

Teisani 9th January 2023 12:31 PM

2 Attachment(s)
3 - Ancient Greek tomb with sword and spearhead found on the Croatian island of Hvar

https://archaeonewsnet.com/2022/01/a...sword-and.html

Teisani 9th January 2023 01:49 PM

3 Attachment(s)
4 - Bosporan kopis from Kerch, Crimea.

https://hekitateru.livejournal.com/3827322.html

Teisani 9th January 2023 02:26 PM

5 Attachment(s)
5 - Prodromi kopis - found in Prodromi, Epirus Region of Greece, now residing at the Igoumenitsa Archeological Museum

Teisani 9th January 2023 02:44 PM

7 Attachment(s)
6 - Dodona Kopis at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...ia_1_9.html#_8
https://www.flickr.com/photos/101561...n/photostream/

Teisani 9th January 2023 03:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
7 - North Macedonian kopis - Republic of North Macedonia

Teisani 9th January 2023 03:50 PM

2 Attachment(s)
8 - Unknown kopis - no further info

Teisani 9th January 2023 04:51 PM

12 Attachment(s)
9 - Depictions of kopis swords

Teisani 9th January 2023 05:12 PM

12 Attachment(s)
10 - More depictions of kopis swords

Teisani 2nd March 2023 06:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Bes and Beset. Late Period of ancient Egypt, 664 BC – 332 BC, Louvre. Note: Looks more like a falcata.
Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...9-gradient.jpg

Teisani 2nd March 2023 06:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
More Bes. Terracotta statue of the god Bes, god of joy, and later became god of war. Greco-Roman Museum, Alexandria, Egypt.
Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...pt-14A-039.jpg

Teisani 2nd March 2023 06:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Even more Bes. Bes, Egypt, Ptolemaic or Roman periods, terracotta. Martin von Wagner Museum - Würzburg, Germany. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...-_DSC05407.jpg

Teisani 2nd March 2023 07:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
How is that snake holding on to that kopis? Answer me ancient Egyptians!

Teisani 2nd March 2023 07:33 PM

2 Attachment(s)
More thumb-less swords...men?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Aker_wand.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...eum_of_Art.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ters_71510.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...779980542).jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...T_DP112577.jpg
Is that cheetah kissing that dude? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...EGDP011956.jpg

Teisani 2nd March 2023 07:53 PM

9 Attachment(s)
More kopis

Teisani 2nd March 2023 08:01 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Sword of king Seuthes III of Odrysia, a part of Thrace (today Bulgaria), between 324 and 312 BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seuthes_III
https://www.facebook.com/BulgariaThr...529364/?type=3
https://zh-cn.facebook.com/Archaeolo...58949051/?_rdr
https://www.facebook.com/Archaeology...5849988949018/
https://www.ploshtadslaveikov.com/tr...nite-shlemove/

Teisani 3rd March 2023 08:37 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Now for some Italic peninsula Kopis/Machaira:

Lanuvium machaira. Warrior tomb of Lanuvium, equipment dated to the first quarter of the (~475) 5th century BC. Elements exhibited in the epigraphic section at the Diocletian Baths Museum, which is part of the National Roman Museum (Rome, Lazio, Italy).
Length = 81.7cm
Width at hilt = 7.5cm
Width at blade = 7cm
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...r_Ve_av_JC.jpg
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/italica/twlanuvium.html
http://www.osservatoriocollialbani.i...ia-di-lanuvio/

Teisani 3rd March 2023 08:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Malpasso machaira - From Malpasso Necropolis, Tomb 12 Gualdo Tadino, Umbria, 400-350 BCE. Villa Giulia Museum in Rome.
Length: over 70cm
http://www.fabrianostorica.it/storia...rrobattuto.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/2183092037

Teisani 3rd March 2023 09:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Piceno machaira (tomb IVb) - 520-470BC Ascoli Piceno, Italy.
https://www.storieparallele.it/piceno-iv-b-apogeo/

Teisani 3rd March 2023 09:50 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Piceno machaira V - 470-385BC Ascoli Piceno, Italy. resides at the "Museo Archeologico Nazionale delle Marche" in Ancona.
https://www.storieparallele.it/piceno-v-il-territorio/
https://legvmac.ru/news/vk_18817/

Teisani 3rd March 2023 10:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Alalia machairas - Aleria, Corsica, France. One of them is 89cm long. Etruscan, 4th century BC?
https://twitter.com/Hugorodru/status...95747053707265

Teisani 3rd March 2023 10:37 AM

2 Attachment(s)
More Alalia machairas

https://archeologiavocidalpassato.co...lia-di-alalia/

Teisani 3rd March 2023 11:03 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Restoration and reproduction manufacture of one Alalia machaira: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1X2FjrWh-I

werecow 3rd March 2023 12:49 PM

Interesting, I did not realize that so many of these had T-section blades.

Teisani 3rd March 2023 02:39 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow (Post 279672)
Interesting, I did not realize that so many of these had T-section blades.

Most, if not all, Corsican/Italic peninsula machaira have T-spines (or rather pipe-backs). Balkan kopis seem to have mid-ribs, if longer blades. Unclear what cross-section the shorter ones have, my guess, triangular (probably some fullering). Although there are some long-ish kopis (like the Kerch kopis) whoose cross-sections are debatable. The falcata is a different story, it seems use a combination of fullering and spine thickening (almost a T-spine, but less pronounced) more often.

Speaking of blade length, the Dodona is ~71cm, the Prodromi is about ~77cm, the Etruscan ones are in the 70-80cm range (some probably longer, ~85cm). So not really "short swords".

Another aspect is the false-edge on some kopis examples (presence confirmed in Parnell's article) and complete absence on the Etruscan machairas (due to pipe-back). Now, almost all falcatas seem to have false edges. The only falcatas that I know of that don't, are the Almedinilla falcata (upper) and this other one). The Almedinilla even has some sort of T-spine (you can see the thick spine here https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._M.A.N._02.jpg). Quite an atypical example. Of course there shoud be others without false-edges that I am not aware of.
One more thing is that some might look like the have false edges, but in reality might be just beveling of the spine without an actual edge.

Teisani 3rd March 2023 03:34 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Size comparissons. I think/hope they're to scale.
Source: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...8&postcount=18

Teisani 3rd March 2023 03:53 PM

3 Attachment(s)
More Picene machaira from the "Museo Archeologico Nazionale delle Marche" in Ancona.
https://legvmac.ru/news/vk_18817/

kai 3rd March 2023 05:50 PM

Thanks, great effort!

Teisani 3rd March 2023 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai (Post 279696)
Thanks, great effort!

Glad you liked it!

M ELEY 4th March 2023 04:12 AM

Not in my ballpark, but incredibly detailed information on these fascinating swords! Future generations of collectors will appreciate your great effort and knowledge on these!

Teisani 4th March 2023 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY (Post 279741)
...Future generations of collectors will appreciate your great effort and knowledge on these!

Thank you! Thank you!...and to future generations, I prefer my statues in imaculate white marble (bronze is for peasants, yuck!). Oh! and placed in a sunny spot, with no pidgeons around. :D

================================================== =======

On a more serious note, one reason I started this compilation of available online information on these swords, is because people lump Iberian falcatas with Greek/Italic kopis together. More often falcatas get labeled as kopis, rather than the reverse, because extant kopis are much more rare, and usually not as well preserved (and the ancient Greeks have much better PR than Iberian celts, so more people). But I want to emphasize that kopis and falcatas are very distinct in shape, and possibly in function too.

P.S.: I regret not being able to provide the sources to all of the pictures/info posted. Some of them I have for a while, and just forgot where I acquired them.

Teisani 28th May 2023 05:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The Combat Archaeology of the Fifth-Century BC Kopis: Hoplite Swordsmanship in the Archaic and Classical Periods by Thomas O. Rover.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ssical_Periods

There are some nice videos accompanying the research paper on the author's YouTube channel, here: https://www.youtube.com/@thomasrover9295/videos

In my opinion this is a good example of the "kopis/falcata interchangeability" tendency which makes things confusing for beginners wanting to study these two ancient swords. I really like the reproduction, but it's clearly a falcata, not a kopis.

I also disagree with that statement in the paper that Fig.2 represents two kopis swords at the Met Museum. Unfortunately, the Met Museum seems to state the same here:https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/257576
But judging by their shapes, they are Iberian falcatas.

Still, the paper is full of useful data, a recommended read.

hrvsomerville 26th November 2023 05:28 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Teisani (Post 277871)
2 - The Ancient Greek Kopis and Machaira - Catherine Sara Parnell (Trowel Volume XII 2010, pages 120-129)

https://trowelucd.files.wordpress.co...trowel-xii.pdf

Very happy to see someone as interested in these as I am. It's also interesting that Parnell claims that the kopis is rarely portrayed in sculpture as these examples (of at least the hilts) were found in Dodona, where the first example she cites was found. Maybe she thinks that because they could appear to look like straight swords when sheathed? An example of that can be seen in the painting of one from the tomb of Lyson and Kallikles, interestingly seen with equipment similar to that found with the Kopis from Prodromi.

hrvsomerville 26th November 2023 05:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is another interesting example that was exhibited a few years ago in Bulgaria, described as a Thracian weapon, despite it sharing some key characteristics with the Macedonian examples. I suppose that doesn't mean much considering the example found in King Suethes III's tomb also shared these characteristics, which is curious. This example is notable as it's the shortest and broadest I've ever seen.

hrvsomerville 26th November 2023 05:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is another example of the Macedonian type, though it is missing the blade. You can see a hole for the eye on the bird's head, which supposedly would hold a ruby.

hrvsomerville 26th November 2023 05:58 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Here is another example though I'm not sure how to classify it. Based on its curve (or lack there of), and shape of the handle, I'm inclined to say it's Greek, similar to the Macedonian types. However, the handle is clearly a horse head rather than the typical bird head, the handle isn't solid iron (looks like center would have been organic), the guard is missing the characteristic bump before the point (though your 7th example seems to be missing that as well), and the blade is rather short. I'm curious what you think.

I will say I have seen an example of a long (96cm, even longer than the Macedonian-type kopis), straight blade with a very similar horse-head, non-solid handle that was described as a Greek makhaira from the 6th -5th c. BCE — but since it lacks a curve it's likely not a "kopis", so I won't post a picture here. But given that context, it makes me think that this example might be Greek and precede the Macedonian examples from the 4th c. BCE.

Teisani 27th November 2023 07:58 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Excellent finds! Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrvsomerville (Post 286289)
Very happy to see someone as interested in these as I am. It's also interesting that Parnell claims that the kopis is rarely portrayed in sculpture as these examples (of at least the hilts) were found in Dodona, where the first example she cites was found. Maybe she thinks that because they could appear to look like straight swords when sheathed? An example of that can be seen in the painting of one from the tomb of Lyson and Kallikles, interestingly seen with equipment similar to that found with the Kopis from Prodromi.

Would you consider a kopis blade on a xiphos hilt still a kopis? What about a xiphos blade on a kopis hilt? To be fair some kopis examples have almost straight blades, the Prodromi example and this one, with a bit more work, look almost like xiphos blades.
I would argue that the only remaining distinguishing feature of a kopis, as opposed to a xiphos, might not be the forward curvature of the blade, but the asymmetric hilt. Actually, not the entire hilt even, sometimes just the hook shape at the end. Here are two examples with symmetric guards, but hooked ends.

Attachment 232138
Attachment 232139

Actually you can find a nice contrast between the two types in the Tomb of Lyson and Kallikles example you posted.
Attachment 232141Attachment 232142 Attachment 232150
Source:
https://x-legio.com/en/wiki/kopis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A...de04a5a180.jpg
https://hetairoi.de/en/kopis-prodromi

Teisani 27th November 2023 04:21 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hrvsomerville (Post 286291)
Here is another interesting example that was exhibited a few years ago in Bulgaria...

Good find. Yes, it's probably from the Dobrich regional history museum (Регионален исторически музей Добрич) in N-E Bulgaria. It is indeed an odd example, being closer to a knife than a sword. But if you make it longer it looks very similar to the Prodromi find.

Source:
https://pronewsdobrich.bg/ekspozitsi...oogle_vignette
https://rousse.info/тракийско-въоръж...#1083;о/


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