just a foot note concerning the Ottoman period and more specific on the Janiczars :

obviously based upon "the glory and victory "songs were made,
also on the skills, beauty and sucess of the fire arms like this example

next to the 2 buckles shown in the above reply by mahratt ( the 2 pictures again enclosed), I found a 3rd one / my 2nd which looks similar to the Caucasian one but without the name in ofcource Cyrillic.
Made in Niello silver - .875 (84 Zolotniki) with a 2nd Kokoshnik Moscow mark dating 1908-1917.

bak 2 the bichaqs...


just bought this one. Lenght of a typical Sarajevo bichaq, the grip is a little more like a Yataghan but is not that rare to be seen either.

Strange is the fact that most Bosnian K.u.K made bichaqs (22-37 cm ones) have a long straight blade.
Only the "cutlery" type ( < 20 cm) ones have the Yataghan typical "curly" or "curved" or snakish shape blade.
And ofcourse the Yataghan themselves...
Also the decoration differs from the K.u.K. Habsburg period 1878-1918 ones and looks more like the Ottoman times art work from pre 1878
as can be seen in the bichaqs with Arab lettering.
So a kind of match / crossover? between two periods one might say perhaps ?

First time I encountered a Balkan and Bosnian bichaq with such a blade .

The scabbard is a "marriage" as it doesn't belong to this shape of blade.
No problem as I can use it for a “straight" blade bichaq without a scabbard.

But strange it is . Will post , if interest is there, more pics upon its arrival.

Your thoughts and comments please...?

thnx a lot!

Gunar

it arrived and I found the answer(s) myself;

First the scabbard does clearly not belong and some one sold it to the previous owner as being one.Which it isn't.

Secondly, looking at the decoration this tells it all:

1. the Bosnian Turc language written in Arabic signs is correct, but the latin one is "upside down". Root cause: the man doing this was "Latin" illiterate...
Why ? the date tells it all :

2. 1878 is the year of the Treaty of San Stephano and also Berlin, which changed the map of Europe and was the prelude to both the Balkan Wars 1910-13 and the Great War or WWI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty..._other_regions


and coming back to the bichaq: the occupation of Bosnia by Habsburg and its insurrection in both 1878
so the maker had no clue how Latin writing looked like and hence the upside down "error" which is not seen in later knives, kamas, cakijas, bichaqs and yataghans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro...govina_in_1878
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Had%C5%BEi_Loja

which makes this bichaq unique and a "quicky":

being made just first half 1878 it had the Arab decoration, just to be added with the Latin in 1878 in the occupation year when Sarajevo was "apeaced" and the prohibition of bichaq and yataghan production not yet active (1878-1882) to sell to one of the sr. K.u.K. militairy staff in charge of Bosnia. The maker wanted quickly to make some money and adjusted it for sale to the new rulers . Who can blame him in those troubled days...? Think also of Indonesia and Holland and the Tjikeroehs production

It also explains the "yataghan"like snakish blade which is typical Ottoman and can only been seen in the early Habsburgian / K.u.K. years as later the blades were straight.

This is a really nice variant.

talking about a variant or (to me a little at least) strange is this one I just puchased

Indeed a bichaq but not the regular "warrior" or combattant one, nor the one for ceremonial purposes (like after the Habsburg annexation).

Why?
Simple; its size is too small / short.

Dimensions:
total length 21,0 cm with scabbard
blade 19,5 cm - width 1,8 cm
handle/grip 9,5 cm

strange in my opinion is the handle /grip : not the typical "yataghan"type but an animal (looks like a deer)

at those time you didn't had such a thing like "artistic" freedom , nor where the makers that couageous or daring to try such a thing.. Specially in the Ottoman times. My guess would be that it was made for a child of either a (very) rich merchant or aristocrat in the Balkans.


remark: the decoration on the ferrule is very fine and not seen or hardly on bichaqs as is on this one...
the metal scabbard looks "scruffy"but my guess is that the leather on it has disappeared, hence leaving it "naked"


What do you think ?

update on the "scruffy":

after it arrived i noticed the metallic little look at some spots on the scabbard were actually silver ! So no leather like some bichaqs have.
The complete scabbard has been silverplated originally and sadly it disaapeared through time.
Looking at the size, the "deer" hilt, I think a nobleman or rich merchand had it made for his son pre 1878, not in the Habsburg but Ottoman era.

a new one which I hardly have seen:
the round top of the hilt / grip and not "fancied up" with metallic support or decoration.
Be it as support of the blade or just as an additional decoration.
Total lenght: 36 cm, bichaq only 35 cm

Judging by the decorations on the blade, this looks exactly the same like the Sarajevo ones I have prior the Austrian occupation in 1878 or the latest in the transition 1878.
So definetly Ottoman period, which I would judge timewise between 1850-1870.

The round top reminds me of the Ottoman gravestones in Bosnia, specially in Sarajevo which were in Ottoman times decorated with this turban-like decoration at the top, which looks similar here with the bichaq...

Your thoughts please, what do you think ? or is it just a misplaced silly and wrong assumption ?

just received my new bichaq of the non yataghan type blade; a triangle one.

You do not see these "triangle"ones that often and in the forum I only saw one example in member Valjhun's collection posted 2008 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...8&postcount=23

my previous posted and 2 other ones are one from Sarajevo and Foca 1890.

This one is from Foca as well but no date on the blade.

Does any forum memeber have a traingle one and if positive:

- kindly requested to give me the specs / dimensions
- show us a picture

thank you very much !☼

Two nice pieces :

a nice Bosniakenmesser / bichaq with a blade of 35 cm and wooden copper covered scabbard

and the second is a long dagger which based on its lenght I never have seen before;
Total 45,5cm with scabbard, witouth 40 cm and blade 27 cm .
Scabbard is made out of wood, leather cover and metal / iron at end and top.


Has any of you seen the 2nd long type before or have you one in your collection ? in the latter case, kindle requested to provide a picture, thank you

I’ve got a few of these but these examples are the standouts in my group. Not necessarily for their quality, but for their interesting characteristics.

don't underestimate yours; the quality is good to very good.

Forget about Bosnian scabbards, always the poorer part as it is just very thin copper on wood ( and not the best strongest wood I dare say).
Hardly to find an undamaged scabbard.

The knives or daggers though are very interesting; can you tell us a little more? like lengths, width and such? Much obliged !

I've added some photos that show the lengths of each of these knives. Interestingly they are all nearly the same in terms of blade width, all about 1 inch wide with almost negligible variation.

I got lucky with the two knives that I call either bird beak pommels or frog mouth pommels. They were purchased at two different times from two different sellers.

The other two are quite odd (to me at least) in the world of Bosnian bichaqs. The boxy bone hilted bichaq lacks the refinement these knives normally have. As you can see the hilt is very square and the "bolster" is just pieces of copper/brass pinned to the tang. The scabbard is also very basic being a sheet of copper/brass formed to the shape of the blade with very thin wood shims friction fit inside to help retain the blade. The contrast is the very nice engraving of "Sarajevo" on one side of the scabbard.

The horn hilted bichaq stands out by having the previously noted horn hilt. It is also a simple hilt, lacking ears or another form of shaped pommel normally seen on these knives. The horn scales are also mostly unadorned with only three small unknown red inserts on each side of the hilt. The scabbard is some type of thin iron/steel sheet that was either painted or otherwise blackened over a wood core. I am unsure if this scabbard is original to this knife however. The scabbard was clearly carved to accept the bolster but when sheathing the knife it is stopped before the bolster can go in, but far enough to where the blade is completely sheathed. The fit is good and tight though so this was probably an error during manufacture. I also got a slightly better picture of this knives mark, which is quite different from the usual shamshir mark normally seen on these.

Thank you! The top 2 with the “open mouth” handle are very nice and I believe you outbid me in the auction as I do not have this type of Bosnian at all…:)
Congrats again!

The third one with Sarajevo inscribed on the scabbard looks like some of the Bosnian knives I have, based upon the decoration marking on the blade. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=21
A very nice one but simple made; could be a local little maker at the country side or a non professional who still could make a little nice item and around 1900 perhaps 1910 even…

The last ( the one with the red dots) could also be from other Balkan countries or another region in the Ottoman empire. I do not dare to determine its origin….