Hana,

if I am not mistaken...em...after reading old threads I have a conclusion that a lot of waroeng kopi attendances have very deep understanding of keris.... more than expected before. It means that "tayuh" or "nayuh" is nothing new amongst our colleagues.

I don't have any ability to "nayuh" and, perhaps, just have a little bit information about "tayuh". Based on that little information of "tayuh", it is wise to learn scientific and "pakem"ic (tangguh, sepuh, pamor, and so on) aspects of keris before learning about "tayuh" and doing "nayuh".

Why? I dont know exactly the answer. Perhaps, you must ask to our colleagues either here or by personal message.

Usman

Hana,

to continue about "nayuh" and "tayuh" (Hana, I do really wanna know these words in english, so please translate it)

one of the greatest challenges in "nayuh" is to differentiate between the imagination and the "real message". to strengthen the ability for differentiating it, imho, it is important to have wide knowledge of keris. Pakem Keris is learnt by mind. "Nayuh" is done by heart/soul. Let mind as a good guardian of heart/soul. Without strong and capable guardian, heart/soul can be trapped nowhere but "fantasy". it is very dangerous, actually.

may I explore by an analogy:

firstly, if I have a thick book: written in the cover "ensiklopedi keris by bambang harsrinuksmo", there are pictures: keris 13 curves outside its sheath. lets imagine all of metioned above just like "tangguh/period, pamor, ricikan/detail, dhapur/model[?]" in a certain keris. these information will be used as a compass.

secondly, I would like to know inside that book. If it is real book, it is very easy, just open it then read. But lets imagine the book is a keris. To know inside, one of the ways, is by doing "nayuh". when in nayuh, I meet with robert langdon and sophie neveu, for the sake of my goodness, I must stop it immediately. Why? instead of getting "real message", I am creating "a fantasy based on dan brown's novel: da vinci code". if in the cover written "ensiklopedi keris", the book (the keris) should explain about keris (its spiritual aspects) inside.

thridly, even in "nayuh" I get images or explanations about keris, I must still need to test and retest it. sometimes, well-planned/well-organized fantasy happens.

em...thats all for now, I must take a bath and go to workplace.

Usman

Usman, you continue to show keen insights on this subject and i find your Da Vinci Code analogy to be quite good. :)
I do not believe you will find any single word in English that properly discribes nayuh or tayuh so it is probably best to work more on finding a good definition for these words and then continue to these words in the context of our conversation. :shrug:
I do understand why some may be hesitant to discuss these subjects here on the forum, however i would still like to encourage it. The subject will be taken seriously here and you should have no fear of ridicule. This is also not the type of subject that can be held up to scientific measurement and i will insist that all peoples beliefs be treated with respect and understanding. :)

Cool!!
 

“Hana, Calling Usman..Come in Usman”…sorry, I’m very busy lah.. :(

Usman, I shall input my generic understanding on the definition of “menayuh” and “tayuh”. “Menayuh keris” is the procedure in communicating with the keris if that particular keris is fit for the owner. It can be done through dreams or a keris expert. “Tayuh” is to ask what is the mission of the respective keris, who is the “Empu” etc. It can be done only by a person who is expert in this field.

Please do correct me for I may have the wrong perception. :p

Indeed, "menayuh" is very interesting subject but a lot of people from the keris culture would normally avoid discussing it in the open for fear of ridicule by "scientologist" or bashing by the so-called "islamist.

I used to be engaged in a fiery discussion in another forum and was insulted badly by a few forumites when putting across the traditional way of treating the keris in my collection, and the way I communicated with the keris (in this case, the guardian of the keris). From then on, I swear to myself to never again discuss keris in the spiritual context.

So Hana, please be prepared as the non traditionalists will bash you up to the maximum if you are not careful when discussing this subject. Some of them are perhaps what the other forumites termed as "ghost readers" and would definitely jump in when the situation warrants.

penangsangII

p.s. you can offer a special prayers to the person/ancestor whom you have inherited the pusaka from, then place the keris under your pillow before going to sleep.

Not on this forum they won't! "Ghost readers" may considered themselves warned! Any "bashing" of anyone's personal spiritual convictions will not be tolerated here and will be very swiftly dealt with! :mad:
Now please, let us continue the dialog... :)
BTW Penangsang, i think perhaps you meant to say "scientists" instead of "scientologists". Though i do sometime wonder what Tom Cruise and John Travolta might think about all this. ;) :)

Thanks David, that makes me feel a lot safer. :)

Yes, I guess you are right, my bad choice of word - it should scientist, though not scientist per se. I just don't know the right word. Anyway, if you happen to meet John & Tom, please send my regards, and of course my apology :D

Sometimes I cannot understand those folks who claimed that they were also collecting keris. Being a traditional weapon that keris is, I believe, it should be treated in a traditional manner although I dont have the slightest apprehension to those who treated keris in a more modern way.

I hope the more knowledgable members can contribute on this "nayuh" subject as I believe I still have a long way to go before reaching Alan, Pak Ganja, Pangeran Datu, Raden Usman's standard and the list goes on.

Khadam and Sakti
 

Dear experts,

One thing when talking about the 'inside' of a keris, we must avoid being anachronistic, by, for example, speaking of khadam in keris made by mPu before the spread of Islam in Jawa. Khadam is a concept from islamic tradition and is much younger than keris culture. According to islamic traditions, khadam -jinn slaves- can reside in anything the owner puts them in. From Aladien's lamp to a bottle.

If one studies some of the available mantras used by mPus it seems that the original idea is that the magickal power of the keris is the result of 1) The mPu's concentration and 2) the materials used in the keris.

In the case of the materials, iron and steel were in Jawa untill recently, prized metals (Lombard's theory that keris are small because the iron and steel was scarce) and the belief was that within the metals, there is sakti.

Offerings to sakti objects also change through time. In Dutch times, often an offering would require opium. Now you can only get fake opium (you can't get a high from it) in traditional flower sellers in Solo / Yogya, and the sakti / spirits don't use it anymore. Alcohol was also a popular offering to sakti / spirits, and after 'Tanam Paksa' (Cultuurstelsel?) Western plantation products like coffee and tea and tobacco also became popular with the spirits.

My conclusion is that spirits / sakti, if they are to be offered anything at all, should be considered as guests or friends (if they are friendly) and offered whatever you have at hand. There are the traditional incenses and perfumes and flower compositions that are common, like kembang telon, kembang setaman, macan kerah and so on which are artistic and interesting to look at and interesting to think about, but a friendly spirit should not be offended if offered what ever the host has even be it a Dunkin donat. But if an islamic culture khadam resides in a Hindu / animist blade, his/her presence might overshadow or change the type of sakti originally in the blade through the metal composition and the mPu's meditation. Better sing 'Singgah, singgah kala singgah pan suminggah durga kala sumingkir ...."

Warm salaams to all,
Bram.

keris.. keris siapa mau beli keris 50% diskon abis nggak pakai perewangan ( keris keris for sale and discount 50% without Methaphysical power). What's a pity keris in southeast asia. is it an aeng tong tong Touris keris or real keris ?

I agree with david we should be look at the natural phenomenon possibility . But David , I suggest you should be put the natural aspects in number 100 after Methaphysical power in the first place when you are talking about keris with Indonesia or it's neigbouring country. if you don't you must be KUALAT SANTET (methapysical illness).

for Indonesian and it's neigbouring country, a millions Rupiahs ($ 100.000)keris will turn to be 50 tousands rupiahs keris ($ 40s) when they completly do not own methaphysical power.

we should aware as keris lover , keris Empus provide methaphysical, phylosophy aspect in every keris they create
and the Aeng tong tong Keris Smith provide the beauty and mass commodity for the tourist.

This is the reality condition in the world of keris lover In Indonesia and it's neigbouring country,

isn't it Pak Raden usman, pak ganjawulung Leres nggeh!, cik alam Syah bersetuju kah! :)

Lelang69,

I beg to differ WRT your statement that fake spiritually imbued power keris is so widely spread in Southeast Asia, especially in other countries than Indonesia. I am not what the keris market is in Indonesia, but I can tell you for certain, here in Malaysia the situation is very different.

Sure, the blank keris (wedding & tourist craps) are on sale in the open, but most collectors (and pesilat) are aware of what the vendors are selling....crap.

Keris making activities in Malaysia are not as thriving compare to Indonesia (based on info you provided, it's quite big), though I am not sure how this "industry" is like in indonesia. In Malaysia, the keris making activities are dying simply because the pandai keris do not mass produce their craft, and still retain the traditional way of keris forging. If I were to order a standard keris from a smith, it would take him at least 3 - 4 months to complete. And with the mahar of around MYR 700 - 1000 (about USD 200 - 300) per piece, I wonder how he can support his livelihood. That is why, keris making is dying here.

Most collectors therefore would prefer to source their collection from the antique shops, other collectors, internet etc. for older kerises that still maintain its khadam in them :D

I think that it should be clear that the vast majority of keris, both old AND new, were not created by an empu. This is a rather specific title as AFAIK. So it seems likely to me that many keris have been created over the centuries by village pandai that were meant to provide more than just "beauty and mass commodity for the tourist". These are cultural items created with a cultural purpose, not for tourists or just collectors.
Contemporary keris are created today on many levels of quality and execution. Many collectors are happy to collect the best of these new keris even if they were created with no metaphysical intent, but purely for their beauty and execution. But i have found that some of these keris have great presence inspite of the lack of such intent. I have also found that a keris with such a presence can be a great empty container which can be filled with spiritual intent if one so wills it. Frankly, one can fill a steak knife with such intent if that is your choice. It just won't be so beautiful to look at. ;) :)
IMHO, powerful magickal objects are useless in the hands of those who do not possess the power and magick within themselves to wield them. ;)

Lelang, you were doing so well up to here. :rolleyes: You have been asked before not to write untranslated passages on this forum. I have no problem with any language written here as long as an accurate translation is also provided. Since you have used Indonesian phrases in the past to pass insults i am particularly wary. Consider yourself warned. :mad:

[QUOTE=Kiai Carita] Better sing 'Singgah, singgah kala singgah pan suminggah durga kala sumingkir ...." QUOTE]
Bram, would you mind translating this passage? Is this a well know song and is there more to it?
Your point about the changing of offerrings over time is interesting and well taken. :)

to "some people", spiritual aspect of keris is the most important and sacred.

in the modern business methodology, there is a maxim "first think first"

back to "some people", instead of "first think first", they follow other maxim "most consider last"

hundred aspects of keris, but to summarize it, three consecutive aspects of keris are technical, aestethical and spiritual aspects.

usually, they will examine a keris from spiritual aspect after they consider that keris has passed the examination based on aesthetical standards.

normally, a beautiful keris has excellent technical aspects.

but, if any one wants to consider "spiritual aspect" first then other later, it is up to them since there is no single rule must be followed.

if I am not mistaken, the image of heirlooms of Yogyakarta Sultanate can be seen in a certain book ( I forget the title, perhaps "Yogyakarta Heritage"). There are images of Kiai Joko Piturun, Kiai Kopek [?], Kiai Toyotinaban, etc. imho, even those kerises have been defeated by nature (corrotion), I still can see that its aesthetical dan technical aspects are excellent. (even, as Alan said, actually it is not sufficient to give a comment on those kerises just from pictures without touching directly..... who am I? :shrug: btw, if there is an opportunity to touch them... it is the honour, pray for me Alan, someday I will ever grasp it once or twice)

into the image in this thread, I just blindly guess, an unordinary keris kolobendu owned by Ganjawulung has excellent in both technical and aesthetical aspects. so... perhaps we can continue to ask Gonjo to elaborate the last aspect :)

Translation...
 

Gamelan Music of Central Java - Song of Wisdom and Love.
Court Music - Pangkur Gedhong Kuning

Singgah singgah kala singgah
Pan suminggah durga kala sumingkir
Singa sirah singa suku
Singa tan kasad mata
Sinnga tenggak singa wulu singa bahu
Kabeh padha sumingkira
Mring telenging jalanidhi

Translation:
Move, move, evil spirits, move away,
The prayer to move evils away.
One resides in the head, one in the legs,
The invisible one,
One resides in the neck, one in body hair, one in the arms.
All must move away,
To the centre of the ocean.

;) :D :p ... sung poetry...

Thanks Shahrial, that is very beautiful (and at times perhaps useful ;) ). :)

I was taught a rather different song - happens in oral traditions:

Singgah singgah Kala singgah!
Pan suminggah Durga Kala sumingkir!
Singa sirah, singa suku
Singa tan kasat mata
Singa tenggak singa wulu singa bau
Kabeh pada sumingkira
Baliya mring asal neki!

Go away! Go away! Evil spirits go away!
Go away! Destruction and Time go away!
Evil in my head, evil in my limbs
Evil that the eyes can't see
Evil in my throat evil in my hairs and in my energy
Go away I command you
Go back to where you came from!

The melody of this poem is very powerfull and sung properly immediately cleans an atmosphere - when sung, it is cross-cultural and relates to spirits universally. I have experienced many times the power of this song too, and my translation fits into the melody perfectly.

Warm salaams
Bram.

Prewangan, Dukun and lelang...
 

In defense of aeng Tong Tong keris makers: Mas Hidayat, posting here as Mans can take you to Aeng Tong Tong and introduce you to keris makers who have TOP technical skills. How much can you afford to spend? Aeng Tong Tong craftsmen can make the keris for you. They make keris for a living, be the buyers people who rent out traditional dress or tourists (the tourist market is the smaller one). Aeng Tong Tong is the ONLY village in the whole wild world that has made keris for many many generations, with a pause only during the Japanese occupation durion WWII. If you can't respect that, I suggest you learn to.

Kuwalat and Santet are two different terms relating to different things. Kualat is when someone gets ill-fortune because of disrespecting something he should respect. For example, Lelang might be kuwalat because of the slander he dishes to the Aeng Tong Tong craftsmen. According to tradition if you are kuwalat, when you go to Hell you are hung by your feet with your head down. Santet is a black magic attack mostly initiated by dukun santet. Kuwalat and santet are different things.

Perewangan is not, as Lelang translated, mystical power. A perewangan (from the word rewang - help) is a person who can fall into trance and obtain help from the spiritual realm to answer certain questions like... who stole my keris? ... So a perewangan is a certain type of dukun who falls into trance when his/her helper takes over. Lelang, on the other hand, means auction.

Warm salams,
Bram

Dear Raden,

Anything related to this aspect is very, very personal... Or talk about it personally...

Ganjawulung

Kiai Carito and Alam Shah,

Durga Kala = names of mother and son?

Durga = Devi Durga ?
Kala = Bethara/Bathara Kala (her son)?


Mring telenging jalanidhi(?)
or
Baliya mring asal neki!(?)
or
Mring telenging bawono(?)

I would like to know the "final" translation this rapal here in this thread. Then I would like to ask a friend to translate into french (or into west african local language "wolof") or anyone of you can translate into french directly. I will use it for cultural sharing.
Beg your permission, all kerislovers
I am so happy there is someone uploading about this.



regards,

Usman

dear Gonjo,

Yes, I can understand if it is very personal matter for you. Sorry for asking it publicly. please, forget all about that question.

Usman

Bram, thank you so much for the additional translation. It seems to be a powerful chant. I wish i could hear the song sung for greater understanding. Doyou know of any recordings of it?
Thanks also for your other translations. ;)

Dear Raden,

What I mean with "personal", is about experiencing "the spiritual aspect" of keris or kerises you have. I don't have hard feeling with your question, Raden...

The first "lesson" for me in the past was "buying spiritual things" from kerises. And what happened is, I bought kerises with so much mythology in them. And blindly believed that my keris such and such has the power of this and this. And my another keris is made by that "hebat" (excellent) empu, and not Aeng Tong Tong one... And so on..

Yes, every keris lover usually has "spiritual experience" on kerises. But usually it is more useful to me, and maybe not for other people. Everyone, has different experience. I don't even want to differ, whether this keris is a "tourist keris" or a "spiritual keris". Actually, keris is a personal thing. What is not personal, is "non-spiritual" aspect.

I knew a very good "dalang" (puppet leather player?), Ki Timbul Hadiprayitno from Yogyakarta. He showed me someday in his house, his very favorite keris. "Spiritual keris" for him, that gave him "strength" when he plays the puppets in front of the people for the whole night long... And it was really "a tourist keris" quality, and I believe was made in Madura, if you regard the "naga" relief. Is it the only keris he has? Of course not. He has even much much better kerises. But still, he always wear that "tourist keris" while he "ndalang" (playing puppets in front of public).

He just told me, that the keris was given by a very ordinary man, a very simple man in one evening. And Ki Timbul always wear this "tourist keris" quality of Nagasasra everytime he plays the puppet. And not wearing the better kerises he has. Why? Just ask Mr Timbul in Bantul, Yogyakarta..

Ganjawulung

Oral Traditions Differ
 

Dear Raden Usman,

I learnt this poem years ago when I was 'nyantrik' in Bengkel Teater Rendra, and we were taught this song by a dancer from the Yogya kraton, mBak Lakshmi Simanjuntak (she was married to a Batak man). Rendra then used it in his "Selamatan Anak Cucu Sulaiman", or "Ritual of Solomons Children" - this showed in New York in the late 1980's, so David, there must be a recording from the New York shows somewhere. I use it as a closing for my English wayang kulit shows when in the UK. It is powerfull, no doubt about that.

I think the differences of the end words are not too relevant, but, Baliya mring asal neki, to me is more powerfull : Go back to where you came from, rather than the middle of the sea or the centre of the earth. When sung in english, the Om at the end of from also adds weight just like the Hindu chant Om. To translate it into any languange I would recomend the translator learn to sing it first - so you get a resemblance to the guru lagu (melody teacher) and guru wilangan (rhythm teacher) of the original.

I was taught that this was composed by Kanjeng Sunan Kalijaga, so in kerisology it is a tangguh Demak song. You can see in the words that it is Islam pushing out Hinduism. Durga and Kala, are Batari Durga and Batara Kala, that is why I translate it to Destruction and Time. In the UK the Hindu community might be offended if they hear a song attacking Durga. :D

Warm salaams,
Bram.

Dear Kiai Carita... your translation to English do justice to the chant. I'm sorry that my translation is under-par and in some ways mis-leading. :o

The way you extract the meanings from religion is impeccable.
I thank you for the proper translation. :)

However, when religion is applied... I'm think it would offend many religions.
The essence is still Javanese Hindu with Javanese Islam influence, imho. ;) :confused:

Ganja, i find so much truth in these words. Magick and spiritual intent is indeed a very personal affair and power can be embued into a keris (or any object) at many places along it's life by many different people. It doesn't necessarily need to originate with the empu who made the keris. I believe that in the right hands a contempory (or even a "tourist" keris) can become a very powerful spiritual tool. I believe this because essentially the "true" power resides within the practioner. This is not to say that some keris do not carry a power of their own, but i can't see that power being of much use if one is unable to access the power within themselves. :)

Yes David,

I've learned much from the simplicity of Ki Timbul Hadiprayitno. I met him in Bantul last March, a couple weeks after his dwelling place was flatted and levelled to earth by the giant earth-quake in that area.

Property, wealth, rank, position, profession according to him are only entrusted goods from God. They are not eternal. And from that encounter on March, I saw that Ki Timbul show this strong character of "he is what he is". He is aware of himself, being a common people. His formal title, Kanjeng Raden Tumenggung (KRT) Cerma Manggala -- given by the late Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX more than 30 years ago -- is only entrusted goods too. Ki Timbul (more than 70) is aware, he is "only" the Nagasasra with the quality of "tourist keris", although the keris' sheath is made of beautiful ivory, the pendhok is "suasa" (copper-gold mixture), gold keris ring and his keris' hilt is made of ivory...

Ki Timbul is one of the best "spiritual dhalang" or wayang puppet-player in Java nowadays...

Ganjawulung

Penangsang is probably referring to his unpleasant experience in KampungNet, and that came about when he chose to belittle the faith other members have in their Islamic traditions. Indeed, I had up to that point resisted requests to shut down that particular thread.

As David has already warned, there is no such danger here, and I encourage discussions on these mystical aspects here rather than in KampungNet, where no such reactions should arise or would be welcomed.

Cool!!
 

Greetings keris experts,

Great to see more replies in this sharing session..I guess we are moving right on track…I like the different version of “Pangkur Gedhong Kuning”..Aspirational indeed…

Penangsang – Thanks for the tips. As for the insults you received from the other forums, its very norm. Look at it this way; different forums have various viewers of different culture. Take the positive and switch off the negative comments. BTW, it’s sad to hear about the dying keris making trades in Malaysia.

Bram – I have to agree that “Aeng Tong Tong craftsmen” has a class of its own. I saw how Mans and friends managed to trace the village. It was quite challenging as there’s no directional sign amidst the forestry area. I saw their kerises and find their craftsmanship worthy. I might consider them if I have a new patrem in mind to custom made to my aesthetic liking maybe someday.

Usman – I know that there are no specific rules on the three consecutive aspects of keris but my preference will be aesthetical, technical followed lastly by spiritual aspects.

Ganjawulung – I knew of someone who has a powerful keris but zero from aesthetic aspect. He will collect only kerises with spiritual aspect. So it’s very subjective.

David - I believe anything is possible. You may have a keris without “khadam/sakti”. However, if you are likeable, these spirits may just reside and hop into your keris as a dwelling place. It’s a figure of speech to contextualize my understanding.

May the force be with you…

David and Gonjo,

I do believe as you, the true power resides within the practioner. However, some people believe keris has power which influencing the practioner/holder. Which one is true? Perhaps, none holds "absolute" truth. It is like chicken and eggs enigma. Which one comes first.

The moderate people would say there is co-relation between them, practioner and keris. Based on the corelationship amongst them, the power has multiplied exponentially.

I do really want to have an opportunity to discuss spiritual aspects of shadow puppet, keris and local values with Ki Timbul "The Dalang". I used to listen to his performance whenever the local broadcaster (usually GCD FM) programmed it on air. Sometimes, I followed it from the begining to the end. Sometimes, just in goro-goro part.

[What do you translate Dalang and Goro-Goro in English?]

Someday, I had discussed with an ordinary dalang about something which he considered as a pusaka. He preferred to pick up not a personal example but in general. Usually, a dalang has a thing which is considered as pusaka. It can be a keris, an akik (stone), one of his gamelan instruments or one of his puppets. None knows because, usually, he keeps it secretly. Some dalangs, use it whenever they perform shadow puppet. Some dalangs, instead of using it when performing shadow, they use it when they do ritual works (meditation, "nayuh", contemplation, and so on). The dalangs have vary opinions about a time or condition which is considered as a sacred part then they consider an neccessity to hold "his pusaka".

By listening to the radio, I had a guessing that Ki Timbul had the elaboration of my questions. But in the end of 80s and the eraly of 90s, he was in his peak whilst I was just a student. It was difficult to have such opportunity. Usually, I chose to meet with people (dalang, dukun, kiai, et cetera et cetera) at a time "before" or "after" their peak seasons. To whom I considered him as "pre-peak somebody", I could listen to and learn his values on wish, hope, ambition and expected achievement. To whom I considered as "after-peak somebody", I could listen to and learn his recollection of golden career and unfinished hope, wisdom and the way he has already pathed. To whom I considered as "on air or on peak somebody", seemingly, they considered me as "a student with bugget package without any interesting offered" then leading to no substantial conversation.

Ki Timbul & Goro-goro
 

Ki Timbul from Bantul is indeed a very good and respected dalang -in this case, dalang is shadow pupeteer (spl?) ... I studied breifly with him in the early / mid 80s. One thing I remember he said was that if you want to be a dalang, you must aspire to be more than famous (kondang), rather you should aspire to be accepted (ketrima). His training as a boy consisted of walking around Central and East Jawa, visiting elder dalangs and talking to people, appart from sitting behind his father handing him puppets in a show. Another Yogya dalang I like and studied with is Ki Hadi Sugito, who now doesn't perform any more, but was expert in goro-goro, especially in bringing the character Bagong to life. He invented 'Bagong Ratu' - a comedy when Bagong becomes king.

Goro-Goro is a part of the wayang kulit dramatic structure where the tides begin to turn for the good side and clown-gods (panakawan) appear. It is signalled by the suluk (sung poetry) Bumi gonjang-ganjing, langit kelap-kelap katon....ooooo...lir gencanging aris, denya ilang wewadhine, wadhananira kumel kucem rahnya maratani...hoooooong. The earth shakes, there is fire in the sky, the seas rise, women loose their shame, their looks are crumpled and the peasants' faces loose their shine....hooooooong! In the goro-goro, the good hero listens to the advice of the clown-gods and finds the strength to continue the struggle victoriousely.

David, if you google Pangkur Gedhong Kuning, you will find a page that refers to a CD in the US.

Most dalangs, have several pusaka in the form of an inherited puppet, a gamelan instrument, and a keris. Sometimes when they retire or even before that) they also are dukuns - like Ki Hadi Sugito from Wates.

Warm salaams,
Bram.

Dear Mr Rahman & Hana,

About that thread in kampungnet, don't worry, it's all in the past. No hard feeling :) .

Actually, me & Sepokal were continuously attacked by a few forumites before we eventually had to defend ourselves and retaliated. I cant provide the link here as the thread was dumped into the rubbish bin, but if I remember correctly, I was accused of being the follower of paganism / jahiliyyah, Hinduistic, unislamic, a complete idiot and so on. Like David said, respecting other people's personal belief by giving arguments academically and without attacking other people's personality is the key of ethics in a forum. The one thing internet communication is, it's world wide, world without border. There is no way that a forum on internet should be targeted to certain types of people only, otherwise I would have told them that they had no business being in the sub-forum "keris collecting" as they had no respect to the keris.

Enough has been said, lets continue with the topic.

dear Bram,

Does Ki Hadisugito have not performed shadow puppet anymore?! yes, the character of Bagong in his performances inspired me so much. In one occasion, related to my formal studies, before audience, a prominent professor asked me what kind of development strategies, in my opinion, should be implemented in my country. One of my answers was a stretegy which could create a situation/an environment that people could do as Bagong did in Ki Hadisugito performance. Full of joy from the beginning till the end of goro-goro.

Back to spirit aspect, especially, of keris. What is your opinion in how to trigger for activating the inner spirit of both the practioner and his keris?

yes, as David said, the most important is "the man behind the gun". Equipped by a good rifle, a talented hunter will become "a big issue" amongst jungles' community (like in the movie).

warm salam,

OeS

Ki Hadisugito and olah rasa
 

Raden, I last saw Pak Hadisugito around 9 years ago, and at that time he wasn't performing anymore due to ill health. Some of his sons were, but not as successfull as him. However, around Yogya you can still find recordings of some of his performances, including, Bagong Ratu. In fact thanks to recording technology, we can still enjoy Nartosabdho years after he passed away.

As to spirit in keris - I am not really interested in the Aladien type of spirit, nor am I interested in having a jinn for a slave (Khadam), but like all good art, the keris also has a spirit inherent in it, from the maker and from the materials. How do you activate the spirit? You must study it, in much the same way as an actor must study Hamlet before being able to deliver the famous line - "to be or not to be, that is the question" ... Everyone knows that Shakepeare is a good writer but not everyone can bring his words to life. Same with a keris, the 'spirit' or power is there, but you can't bring it to life if you don't have it in you.

In Jawanese terms I was taught that you must use 'olah rasa' to be able to feel the truth about the keris. The way to olah rasa that I was taught is called 'gerak nurani' - which is more or less similar to the 'latihan' they do in Subud. You must learn to 'ngetutake krenteg' - follow in flow the split-second decisions of your feeling and let your mind relax and not think, move and flow 'pasrah' surrender to Allah. This exercise done over and over activates a sixth sense. Once this rasa is active, you have your spirit activated, you will find it easy to touch and fill and bring fourth the spirit of a keris.

Warm salaams,
Bram

Yes Raden,

In my eyes, Ki Timbul is a "professor" of simplicity... These are two pictures of my old simple man, with his favorite Nagasasra...

Ganjawulung

to all keris lovers,

remarkable....
enlightening me.

Usman

If I look at the way of Ki Timbul held and opened his beloved keris, I realize that he admired deeply to his belonging. "If not we, who will admire ourself :shrug: ".

Guys and gals, if I am not mistaken, "curigo" is a synonym of/for keris. I do not exactly know its transalation into english. perhaps "curigo" means curiousity. On the other hand, "waos" is a synonym of/for point of spear/lance. "Waos" explicitly means tooth or teeth. One of the implicit meanings of "waos/tooth/teeth" amongst rumpun Melayu (including Javanese) is strength, isnt it?

This opinion below must need further examination since the source is not expertise nor prominent person in the world of Kerisology. Here is his opinion which I got during my journey when I was still undergrad student in Djokja.

There are some pusaka which their spirit have influence on the beholder. Meanwhile, there are some pusaka which theris spirit have influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. According to these opinions, usually, keris refers to the first classification whilst spear/lance point refers to the second one.

All keris lovers, s'il vous plait, now, the floor is yours?

warm regards,

Usmen

A few days ago Kiai Carito offered an opinion on the nature of a suitable offering to a sekti object.

Perhaps we could consider this :-

if we believe that there is some essence in a sekti object, be it a keris,or be it something else, is it not so that this essence is not separate from the universal essence?

is not this universal essence indestructible and eternal, and thus indivisible from the singularity which we conceptualise as "God"?

that which is great, is also small, the essence that we may believe is in our sekti object is not separate from, but is a part of the singularity.

in the making of an offering, it is not the material elements of the offering that are important---these are only present to calm our own imperfections and to assist our own weak and undisciplined thoughts along the path of devotion.

it is the mental attitude that is of greatest importance in any offering to any sekti object.

in the Gita the Lord said:- "Whoever offers a leaf, a flower, a fruit or even water with devotion, that will I accept, offered as it is with a loving heart".

in an offering to a sekti object, we are offering to an element of the singularity that we believe has entered into that object, thus we are offering to our individual conception of "God".

a flower, or a leaf offered with the right mental attitude is as valuable as any complex ritual.

but to learn the right mental attitude is perhaps the work of a lifetime.

or several.

Brilliant... :)

so whenever the holder reachs to the essence of singularity, the mission of keris is accomplished. Added by one imaginer curve, the curves of keris is already even. to the holder, no need a keris anymore, even no need everything as a medium in his search. to the keris, its destiny will be decided then.

dear all Kerislovers,

Perhaps, the last part of our discussion here is on the level of philosophy. Trully, it gives me a genuine enlightment during my study of wesi-aji (valuable steel/iron).

As a car. Perhaps, from the philosophical point of view, the usage of car is to make a journey faster, easier and more confortable. By having a good understanding in philosophical aspects, it does not mean automatically we can use it correctly. As if a driver, to be a good driver, some other abilities are needed.

I do hope all of us may come down to the level of practice (lower than philosophy)... some areas like "how to use a car" instead of "the usage of car". In other thread, a part of ancient book uploaded by Gonjo, there is interesting statement, "If mr so and so holds/uses keris made by empu such and such with "his purity of heart and mind", the remarkable power will emerge from him & his keris. Some questions rise after reading that thread such as... whether there is a standard of procedure to use/operate (technically) of keris?

May all kerislovers contribute this discussion with your knowledges and experiences... thanks in advance.

warm regards,
Usmen