Salaams All, and success with the hi tech shows the group of Sayf Yamaani for discussion. Three dots clearly seen at the throat of what seems to be a Royal Hilt (Iconic) Sayf Yamaani...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

Another good clean shot of The Sayf Yamaani. The Omani Battle Sword.

Swords of Boabdil (Muhammad XII, Emir of Granada). In front, his jineta sword, a broadsword from the 15th Century. Seems related to your sword in some way. But much adorned, as for an Emir.

Salaams Gonzalo G,
Whilst there may be some reflections from early Mamluke and even Sword of the Prophet similarity with the Spanish item I think it is only vaguely reminiscent however it is an excellent observation and I have included similar detail in the description below.

No one actually knows how old this old Omani Battle Sword is... The Sayf Yamaani, I suggest, predates Ibn Jalanda at the time Oman began to fight to remove the Abasiid from Oman in 751 AD...perhaps by 100 years.. but proving that is difficult.

Quote""The early Imamate in Oman arose out of a vision to create the true and ideal Muslim state. The first Ibadhi Imam, Julanda bin Mas'ud, was elected in 751 AD but he died in battle and it was not until 801 AD after a period of turmoil that Warith bin Kaab was elected. There then followed a period of peace, stability and prosperity lasting more than three hundred years".Unquote. The Omani people were converted following a letter delivered in 650 AD and it would make sense that if they were to fight for Islamic inclusion that a weapon with which to combat the invaders would be Iconic and thus I propose that this is a sword from that collection..or close to it.

As the name suggests Sayf Yamaani may be an early sword from the Hadramaut... further indication that a religious weapon from there was issued...and copied. This is not to suggest that all these swords are of that age... but that they continued to be produced perhaps in the famous iron foundry production around Nizwa.

The dates mentioned on the web are scattered all over the calendar from 1000 AD ...to the 19th C. The provenance on most is vague... and some try the Portuguese angle whilst others have different opinions... Iranian...etc

The difficulty arises in the fact that weapons were not buried with the dead in Islam although oddly one was dug up dating to about 18th or 19th C recently...

The Arts of the Muslim Knights gets it nearer reality at 1000 AD but that is not a proven birth date and an earlier date is just as likely, as I say, predating the 751AD Ibn Julanda situation..and pushes the weapon into range as one of the styles of Swords of The Prophet.

http://sword-site.com/thread/258/14t...-sword-kattara States OF A SOLD ITEM ~

Quote"Extremely rare antique Islamic Arab sword Kattara. Another similar Kattara sword is in the collection of the Furusiyya Art Foundation, this collection possesses very important Islamic Arms and Armour material, as described in the book-catalogue by the foundation, such important items are not to be found in other collections or museums. The title of this splendid book - catalog is, The Arts of the Muslim Knight – The Furusiyya Art Foundation Collection Concept and direction by Bashir Mohamed Printed and bound in Italy, First edition. Furthermore, the sword which we are proudly offering for sale is in an untouched condition with the Islamic calligraphic script, which the sword in The Furusiyya Art Foundation Collection does not have, so making this sword a real gem in any important collection of antique arms and armour or Islamic Art. REFERENSES: According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113. The shape of the hilt became traditional in much of the Islamic world and can be seen for example in Nasrid swords of the 15th century, although this example has simple tubes in place of the dragon head quillons, it is probable that all ultimately derive from the sword of the Prophet. Since a sword was an expensive weapon and in the Islamic country the quality and the function of the sword was more important than the style or fashion, some types of swords continued to be popular for a century, for example the Persian Shamshir or Indian Talwar were used for a few hundred years and were passed from father to son and were used by the next generations, hence swords made earlier were still used after hundreds of years. DETAILS: An iron hilt with an octagonal grip attached to the tang by two rivets and a hole for the wrist strap with an octagonal peaked conical pommel showing remnants of silver inlay, the cross guard block is shoulder – shaped with down turned quillons. The blade is straight and is double-edged and has a cuff around its top, as most of these types of swords, and is decorated on the forte with a round medallion containing Arabic inscription. . REFERENSES:Askeri Museum Istanbul Turkey.inv.nos.2382 and 7620; for the latter see Alexandr 1985,no75 and Fig.4;other examples include Topkapi Sarayi Museum ,Istanbul,no1/2765;Wallace Collection, London England ,no1796;The Metropolitan Museum of Art,New York,no1987.43;and Splendeur des armes orientales 1988,no11 and Elgood, 1994,nos 2.13 and 2.15..MEASUREMENTS: The overall length is 87.7 cm (34 ½ in). Width of the blade at the widest point: 5.4 cm (2 1/16 inches)".Unquote

Source: http://www.trocadero.com/101antiques...tem747179.html

What the passage omits is that this is as far as I know the only stamped blade which may be Nizwa... I cannot read it. There are several Museum copies I know of including the Topkapi Askeri Museum and Al Ain Museum with a silvered hilt...(this weapon was awarded the Royal Hilt treatment in the reign of Saiid the Great the same hilt more or less as the Royal Khjanjar)and the TRM in Quwait; the Tareq Rajeb Museum that has one from me about 2 decades ago.

What I like about the picture below described above is the zig zag line at the base of the Hilt which almost forms a rectangle and the third hole near the pommel that was probably for the wrist strap. The circular stamp is very interesting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

More. The right hand sword is the same as #82... Silvered up Iconised with the Royal style... :shrug:

This weapon was used with the Terrs Shield.

The origin of the jineta sword, or even most of the sword types from the muslim area in the Iberic Peninsula, are not "Spanish", but have their origin in North Africa or possibly the Middle East, not counting the very early purchases of swords to the Franks. The jineta sword type was carried into Spain by the Zenete or Zenata berbers from the nation (or "tribe", if you prefer this colonialistic denomination) of the Banu Marin. What concerns me, is the origin of this sword, characterized by the downcurved quillons, the pommel in the form of a dome and the broad blade with a fuller on the first half. Probably the hilt went to further elaboration in the Iberic Peninsula, as the quillons being elongated and their ends sometimes flattened to give space for adornments, and the pommels also being more elaborated. Eliminating those late ornaments, what remains is a fighting sword with a little more than a vague resemblance to your sword.

I don't think those muslim swords from the Iberic Peninsula have anything to do with the early Mamluk swords or the Sword of the Prophet (which one?). Before the Banu Marin, there were influences from the Almohades, and before them the Almoravids, who penetrated in this Peninsula by request of the muslim rulers over there. All of them connected with the Sahara Desert and its trade routes. The origins and development of many types of swords from North Africa and the Arab countries is something to be explored. I don't believe in the simplistic explanation of the "European influence" whenever is found a resemblance with Europe's types of swords, and though the cross-polinization among cultures is undoubtedly a fact, we actually don't know for certain the genealogy of these weapons.
Regards

I dont disagree ...nor do I agree since both sides used the same weapon; The Christians developing it after it had been used against them by the Moors. Thus I used the generic name Spanish and since they were produced in Toledo in addition.

I agree that these swords carry similarities to the Old Sayf Yamaani but that it may simply be coincidental. The link may be in the influence of Swords of The Prophet which I think numbered about 7... of which examples are at Topkapi Museum.

The Sayf Yamaani appears to predate the Jineta by a few hundred years.

I would like to see all the information on the Jineta brought into focus and with its own consolidated thread so a good look can be made of the weapon...

PLEASE SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=JINETA+SWORD which is I think our only Library reference on this weapon.

Perhaps you would like to take that on... Naturally I would be in full support and I am sure others would chip in...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ok, I saw the link to that discussion. And your post, three years latter. And your post over there answer my question. I just tried to know what is your opinion on the possible relation of both types of swords, and not to bring all the information on the jineta sword.

The term "Spanish" is derivated from "Spain". And Spain didn't exist in that time (15th Century), as "India" didn't exist before the British. Only a conglomerate of rival christian kingdoms speaking different languages and, of course Al-Andalus, and after it, the muslim Emirates (the "Taifa") and lastly, the Emirate of Granada. Spain is not a territory, but a nation state. But this political matter is not important in this discussion, so thank you for your opinion on the subject of the swords.

Salaams, Perhaps I will open the thread on this weapon since we have hardly a page of detail on Library. The history of the region is very interesting not least the potential for discussion of Jinetas in this regard.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

THE JINETA
 

I HAVE A BETTER IDEA ... WHY DONT WE CONTINUE THE EXISTING THREAD ...Its only about one page thus, I suggest expanding on this simply by bringing it on !! Here goes.... :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A few more pictures as a reminder of the Old Omani Battle Sword... The Sayf Yamaani. :shrug:

Ibrahiim,
We have seen these pictures before. They were posted right in this topic.
Perhaps, there is no need to re-post them.

Well I can live with a bit of repetition as a form of pictorial memory jogger... :shrug: Perhaps you can find some more?

Dear Sir,

I would love to know how you connected this sword style to the 7th century AD with such determination.

Cheers!

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

Salaams S.Al-Anizi, You are absolutely right. I too have arrived at a dead stop regarding information on this weapon. Most of the museums with a Sayf Yamaani example are known to me but none seem to pinpoint its origins though I am sure the closest will be in Istanbul at the Topkapi... Being called Sayf Yamaani may point to a Hadramaut origin but nothing is proven. I have to say that the only detective work we have in our favour is one of logical assessment: We know it must be earlier than first thought and crude ideas that it was a Portuguese sword or that its origins were in the 17th C were of course nonsense. Reasoned write ups have placed the weapon in the region of 1000 AD... Quite how that has been arrived at "Out of the Blue" has not been explained but I believe the direction is correct but falls short.

The periods in Omani History that need to be considered are After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154....combined with the 751AD date of the defenders through initially Ibn Julanda.

Thinking logically there was no reason to have a battle sword (adopted until today) appear in those timeframes unless it was a hugely important weapon. The only crucible for the appearance of a sword of that nature with an Islamic Hilt as the nations adopted battle sword was with Ibn Julanda... thus it takes on the appearance of a very early Sword of The Prophet ... Pre dating it 250 years before the year 1000 AD in fact is nothing since after that it has marched on until today more than another 1000 years. Moreover if it was indeed the Iconic religious weapon that I suspect then it may well precede 750 AD and be more in line with about 650 A.D.

Regretably there are no swords to compare in the Umayyad period as none seem to exist...so that we appear wedged in between the Abassid period and about 1000 AD... No weapons were buried with bodies and no examples of such an early sword exists..:shrug:

We know that Saaid bin Sultan Iconized the hilt having it covered in silver like the Royal Khanjar in the 19th C and I have sketches of it on Sultan Bargash and a photo of it with The Ruler today. We also know that the Sayf Yamaani was used with the Omani Terrs shield and that this was the only battle Sword in the early era.

The words of the late Anthony North echo in the words he describes in Islamic Arms in his opening paragraph where he describes Islamic weapons as once accepted as effective so they hardly ever changed, thus, the vast timescale that the Sayf Yamaani continued to be made and used down the ages....and by no other warriors except the Omanis.

It is for these reasons that I suspect it was an Iconic Religious weapon( Ibaathi) and why it has stuck around for so long.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

An interesting reference can be seen at http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/08/13...slamic-swords/

Maqamat(Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri
 

On inspection of The Maqamat (Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri at

https://www.pinterest.com/mahboobee/...eriod/?lp=true

I discovered in the manuscript artwork two instances of the straight sword with turned down quilons; One which is often quoted as being the sword Sayf Yamaani (with the two camels). The second picture also painted more than 1000 years ago shows the same style of weapon as the first ...

According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113.

Please see the following research paper related generally to early Islamic swords~

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...viewFile/86/86

Note that the sword shown in the paper above and illustrated below is virtually identical to all the swords in the previous post. This is early 10thC ... and begs the question as to how long a sword needs to be in the public domain before it is Iconised with a place in the astrology charts.

Shown below;from the Suwar al-kawakib al-thabita of al-Sufi dated1009-10

Straight Swords on Coins.

Here I place a possible direct link between early Islamic sword form and the Sayf Yamaani; comparing the sword on coins from the period illustrated which is the key timescale in the 7thC to which I suggest our sword is related...and went on to become the Ibaathi weapon of 751 AD with Ibn Julanda...of Oman.

Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (Arabic: عبد الملك بن مروان‎‎ ‘Abd al-Malik ibn Marwān, 646 – 8 October 705)


was the 5th Umayyad caliph. He was born in Medina, Hejaz, Abd al-Malik was a well-educated man and capable ruler who was able to solve many political problems that impeded his rule. The 14th-century Muslim historian Ibn Khaldun stated that "`Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan is one of the greatest Arab and Muslim Caliphs. He followed in the footsteps of `Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Commander of the Believers, in regulating state affairs".

During his reign, all important records were translated into Arabic, and for the first time, a special currency for the Muslim world was minted, which led to war with the Byzantine Empire under Justinian II. The Byzantines were led by Leontios at the Battle of Sebastopolis in 692 in Asia Minor and were decisively defeated by al-Malik after the defection of a large contingent of Slavs. The Islamic currency was then made the only currency of exchange in the Muslim world. Also, many reforms happened in his time relating to agriculture and commerce. Al-Malik extended and consolidated Muslim rule, made Arabic the state language and organised a regular postal service.

Interesting resemblance with a qattara in Mozarab-Spanish illustrations.

92a-b) Illustrations of ‘Sword of St. Peter’ and ‘Guards at the Holy Sepulche’ in the Avila Bible, Mozarab-Spanish 12-13 cent AD (Biblioteca Nacional, Ms. ER8, Madrid). 93) Carving of ‘St. James’, Spanish 12-13 cent AD (in situ Church of Santiago, Betanzos, La Coruña).

Salaams Gonzalo, I was watching the Jinetta thread and wondering about those sketches with the broadsword and turned down quilons. Well placed and food for thought especially with the artwork seen above from the astrology chart and the Makamat al Harriri. Well placed thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

Salaams Gonzalo G ~ Whilst no one would disagree that there are subtle similarities and shades of partial mirroring there is no direct technical form or construction inherent in both that could be construed as deliberate technical transfer... so what are the similarities? ... remembering that we have virtually no examples of the original Jinetta to compare with. So we are comparing the Sayf Yamaani with the highly ornate precious metal and decidedly aristocratic VIP version whilst trying to imagine what a Jinetta battle sword should look like... Not easy. In addition no one has a clue as to where the Berber version came from.

Where I do agree that the Jinetta had down turned quillons it has to be said that so did a lot of weapons in that culture broadly. It can be said that both swords would have been worn on a Baldric over the shoulder. This can be said about all Islamic swords and going back to Swords of The Prophet where it is known that this was the preferred way it was worn....and it is how the Sayf Yamaani was carried and I believe how the Jinetta was carried and how that also seems to have developed with a saddle baldric in addition.

Nevertheless I do generally agree that similarities are present in both these concepts and I look forward to seeing more evidence in that regard..and I support the general idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Back to basics. What are the implications in sword hilt design on the Sayf Yamaani?

1. Dealing with the Quilons. My view is that these follow the basic concept of a moon shape simply constructed. Many pieces of Omani silver jewelery follow the same idea from necklaces to ear rings, half bangles, and danglers.. Silver Jewelery invokes the idea of The Moon. Gold is for the Sun. I place below the full hilt of the Sayf Yamaani and next to it a jade hilt from another region .. showing the moon phase....and dragon head finials. In addition a few examples of moon shaped Omani Silver to compare.

2. The hand grip. This grip is not tubular but octagonal and well worn. It illustrates the Minaret form.

3. The Pommel looks like the top part of the Minaret from which emanates the call to prayer. It is multi sided often 6 or 8 sides...and sometimes decorated in simple silver script.

The emphasis is on simplicity of Islamic design in keeping with Ibaathi principles. Staunch without over decoration but simple and pious. This provides part of the final bridge between 1000 AD and almost 4 centuries before that when I posit the Sayf Yamaani originally appeared in the same configuration... and remained the same until the 19th C.

For this reason I suggest the sword is Iconic with the Ibaathi concept and was accepted in about 650 AD in the same way as Swords of The Prophet were instrumental in other regions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

There are good reasons to refloat this thread since the historical record seems to be warming up in this regard...In my view although this hangs by a thread(scuse pun) the placement of 1000 AD seems to me hasty regarding the Sayf Yemaani...since it cannot be seen from whom this arrived or was developed it being too late as an Ibaathi sword and unrelated to Persian Islamic style. In the same vein an Ibaathi weapon cannot have been reflected back as a Abbasiid weapon since religion was a one way street as far as design was concerned. For example Islamic weapons were not transferred to Hindu soldiers and the same the other way... It couldn't happen. The Abassid fought the Ibaathi and no quarter was given... They could hardly have adopted the enemys weaponry in this regard. If the weapon was indeed a Sword of the Prophet...specifically The Ibaathi Weapon then it would have been there at the beginning with Ibn Julanda… just after 750 but may have been there before by a few years and I would say 632AD.

To remind readers this Sword is the epitome of Islamic weapons since it is still around today having been Iconized in the early 19thC in the Reign of Saaid Sultan who ruled Oman 1804 to 1856. The present ruler is seen at p69 with his Iconized Sayf Yemaani.

The weapon is suspected as being painted onto miniature manuscript at Les Maqâmât d' Aboû Moḥammad al-Qâsim ibn ʿAlî al-Ḥarîrî 1201-1300 and seen at 98 and other posts above.

A peculiar incident by a Captain Roe in the 17th C has a weapon being supposedly dug from a grave on Jebel Akhdar in Oman near Nizwa but it was not the way bodies were normally buried in Islamic tradition usually without any artefacts or weapons.

The Sayf Yamaani .

I wondered if anyone had seen anything older in reference to the weapon style being hunted down ...The style similar to the above al Harriri depictions at post 98 of about a thousand years ago like for example shown clearly on the battle scene below… probably a reconnaissance group on the hoof at the battle of Badr in 624 CE. :shrug:


The Muslim warrior on the right of the mounted group has his sword in the traditional high mount on a sling at the shoulder or neck. It appears to be a straight bladed weapon but on inspection under magnification the hilt is a bulbous pommel and seems to be Sayf Yamaani in form.

This infers that the weapon style was in common use and would have accompanied delegations spreading the religion to wider regions and entirely underpins its transition as The Ibaathi Sword of Oman where it must have entered the historical record in Oman in 751AD with their leader Ibn Julanda etc etc

This Sayf Yamaani has resurfaced from the client who procured it here many years ago and it is now in Australia. :shrug:

I occasionally see these hilts with a zig zag decoration as shown accompanied by a couple of parallel lines simply placed below. The hilt showing under the leather grip is hexagonal and of two parts riveted through a wooden core. :shrug:

The Example in The Al Ain Museum is shown to compare the zig zag on the hilt and to note a possible use of decorative anchor points for adornment in this case two silver studs....often empty.