They are not reasonable - they are killing my shop... :( I have to buy food, and pay for heat, water and electricity, while I have to constantly stock raw material and buy new equipment. I sell most of my armour far under value, either because I was late with them, or I desperately need that money, or simply because I'm not famous, and mostly, because I'm in Hungary, and sell only to Hungary. Even a good SCA level armour sells at $2-3000, but I could get less than $800 for the very same, while MacPherson, the very best modern armourer can ask for 20K as a start.
And because of this, I have to stick to munitions grade stuff... where function is more important than anything else, and production cost can be kept at a minimum. If someone wanted to pay even 10-15K for a vollharnisch, and would be able to wait for a year or so, I could even make Negroli-level armour, as I have the tools and the skill as well... but for 800$, I won't. :D

So if anyone is interested: the correct price for that fluted vambrace should be at $100-120, the helmet about 150, and the krug is correct at 225. A correct, munitions grade barbute (italian classic-like helmet) would be about $400. Riveted mail doubles the price, while blackening adds 50%. :(

Hm, I forgot.
Is it possible to put skirting on a krug? You know, something like the suit in the MET...
And one more thing... How high shall a krug be? The current one is modified already, so it doesn't count, but the next one will be, most likely, authentic... I made it to european standars, so it stops a little after the ribs. Is it too long, or too short?
Last thing. I bet you don't put on a hauberk under a krug, right?
Thanks!

Actually, AFAIK, you do! :D

The krug was worn over a mail hauberk. It provided additional protection to the chest, abdomen, sides and shoulders. Although i suppose they could also be worn on their own. :)

This is an old photo of the Royal armouries krug. And yes those are greaves being used as vambraces, like I said, it's an old photo:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...an_Korazin.jpg

It was still over a mail hauberk when I first visited the Royal armouries in 1989.

This is how it is now:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...zin-16th_C.jpg

These krugs are also worn over mail hauberks:
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5...bert1017ui.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...an_Stone_1.jpg

I normally don't really approve of reconstructions (they get too many details wrong), but I think this might be helpful:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...scirca1600.jpg

Ok, thanks, useful pictures again... :)
So I measured it well... sad thing is that I can't find examples of skirted krugs... So my one will be semi-fantasy, it seems... Krug-inspired mail&plates harness, huh. :) But if that's the case, I will add the integrated m&p sleeves and the standing collar... it won't make it less authentic. :D
BTW, would this pass as Allah?
Oh, and it's the current layout, now without the spaulders. The back disc will have more flutes... exactly 16. The armpit-plates will have reinforcing flutes, at the centerline of the triangles. The main modification was the reducing of the disc's size. The lowest plate, which is now in one place, will be in 3, reducing the krug-like look even more. :)
Opinions? Especially, would it be possible?

I'll put it this way: you're not going to whin any prizes for Arabic calligraphy. :D but yes, it's legible. :)

I see what you mean about the "skirt". It does change the appearence considerably. The bit above that is fine though. You haven't done the side pieces yet though?

Here's another picture of just the front part of a krug:
http://www.antiques-arms.com/catalog...roducts_id=548

Well, keep in mind that I'm learning arabic only... well, about a month ago, and I have less than a hour daily for it. :D
No, I didn't work on it more since then... I'm going to start hammering in about 10 minutes, so I'll tire you with even more pictures... :D

BTW, could you please post/send me a few (million :) ) pictures of arabic calligraphy on armour? Or on anything? I'll have to learn it, but I don't think it'd be a good idea if I started improvising... :D

:D

I'll try, but it will mean lots of scanning. :)

Hm, 25% off any item you might buy from our shop? :D

Side pieces are done, by now the only missing piece is the spaulder, buyer comes for test fit tomorrow, so it'll be ready in less than a week with blackening... then, I'll have to make that musculata from King Arthur, and after that, I'll have time to (at least) start my own eastren harness. :)

Right, where do i start?

Well first of all there are many types of Arabic scripts (or fonts if you prefer), but the most common types you see on armour and weapons are
kufi, thuluth, and nastaliq.

Thuluth tended to used on most Mamluk and Ottoman armour in the 15th and 16th century, Nastaliq was used on Persian and Indian armour from the 16th to the 19th century. Kufic script was used on really old Fatimid and Ayyubid artifacts (and presumably arms and armour, although virtually non survives) as well as 15th century Iranian weapons and armour.

The other thing is that not all inscriptions on Islamic armour are Koranic verses or names and titles. Sometimes they are apparently meaningless jumbles of letters which actually have talismanic or "magical" meanings.

Here's an example of Thuluth script on a Mamluk sword:
(click on the thumbnail)
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/7...iltb5ll.th.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/7...intb1ya.th.jpg

Here's Thuluth script on a 15th century Iranian "Turban helmet"
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...opolitan_1.jpg

Kufic script on a 15th century Iranian Greave:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11..._Iranian_1.jpg

I can't find any examples of Nastaliq script at the moment, I'll need to have a look around. :)

Thanks, PM sent... :)
BTW, that "jumble of letters" means that I can write whatever I want as far as it looks good and say that it's "magical" enhancement? :rolleyes:

Hi Ahriman, how is your Krug getting along?

Anyway, I recently bought "Armes et Armures Russes" (Editions d'Art Aurore, Leningrad, 1982) which has a number of pictures of Russian armour and weapons.

This was one of the photos. I'm hoping it will bring some sort of closure to the greave/vambrace debate:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...esRus17thc.jpg

I think that the item in this photo does look more like a greave than a vambrace. :)

Hi
your request was; "to post as much pictures/drawings of armour from outside europe, especially from the middle-east"
this answer doesn't came very fast, but at least not the last may be :o
a part of my little treasures

à +

Dom

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=8746&stc=1

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=8747&stc=1

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=8748&stc=1

Nice pictures of armors and the info, you guys! I woder if these guys ever get fungus rot wearing so much and tight armors? I'm sure that would be a huge problem when you come to Southeast Asia. It's wet and hot all year round! They only have two seasons in the tropics...wet and dry season. During the dry season, it gets pretty hot, and it's still very wet and humid than anything Europeans had ever experienced. And during the wet, or the monsoon, season it rains a lot...until the entire forest, cities, and towns are flooded. And not to mention all the biting insects...difficult to scratch if you're wearing armors! [chuckle] The American GI's, who fought in Vietnam, came back and tell the stories of how hot and wet it is, and that they were suffering from severe fungus infection! [laugh!] :D It was a very difficult to move about because of the amount of water and undergrowth.

And I like to make note on the use of armored elephants, though. Elephants are very difficult animals to control because they are bright and probably are aware of what's going on around them. They can feel stress caused by the environments! In that sense they are very dangerous! They kill more zookeepers than any animals in zoos. Stories of Indian elephants killing their mahouts virulently and grusomely by squshing him in a small basket, or teared off the head, or limbs are not uncommon! The use of elephants as tanks is overly exaggerated. When elephants are angry and in pain they will kill everyone, your troops including, not just the enemies. They are used primarily as psychological weapons because being big animals, they would scare the enemies' troops.