Ethnographic Arms & Armour
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Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Keris Warung Kopi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   MADURA ornamental hilts (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6545)

erikscollectables 13th February 2009 10:13 PM
Rasjid,

Some very impressive examples.
Does the first one have a date of 1706?
The last one the Donoriko is great too!

Thanks for sharing, Erik

Quote:
Originally Posted by rasjid
Another ... sorry for the picture quality. Its the best I can manage at this stage.

BluErf 14th February 2009 02:35 AM
What an unusual donoriko! The proportions, form and carvings are all quite unique! :)

Definitely worth looking at for a long while! :)

ganjawulung 14th February 2009 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasjid
Another ... sorry for the picture quality. Its the best I can manage at this stage.
Dear Rasjid,

Regarding the style of carving -- creative carving, not too conventional but sometimes too complicated -- did Jaknal make this hilt specially for you? (Jaknal -- one of the best contemporary Maduran ivory carver, died about a month ago in Madura. He was less than 60 years old...)

GANJAWULUNG

Marcokeris 14th February 2009 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasjid
Another ... sorry for the picture quality. Its the best I can manage at this stage.
Great work! Even if i prefer a little less fat..but nice work!

rasjid 14th February 2009 06:10 PM
Madura hilts
 
I agree, the donoriko is very thick and big, suitable for big keris.

Yes erikscollectables, It's 1706 but small size.

Ganjawulung, I got it (big donoriko) from Jaknal (his personal collection), but I don't think he made this one. It's different carving, compare with the new donoriko, I posted ealier, made by late Jaknal. It's his last piece.

regards,
rasjid

sjors 13th July 2009 03:17 PM
1 Attachment(s)
I suppose this is a Donoriko too?. I would like to know, so if would be so kind to can help me, please:)
I bought this ukiran only yesterday (with a lot of dirt and grease but it looked okay to me) so thats the reason why I'm "bumping" this item after all that time...

Sajen 13th July 2009 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjors
I suppose this is a Donoriko too?. I would like to know, so if would be so kind to can help me, please:)
I bought this ukiran only yesterday (with a lot of dirt and grease but it looked okay to me) so thats the reason why I'm "bumping" this item after all that time...
Hello Sjors,

yes it is a Donoriko hilt. But it look not so old to my eyes.

Regards,

sajen

sjors 13th July 2009 10:26 PM
Thanks Sajen,
Quote:
But it look not so old to my eyes.
Doesn't matter! Two packets of cigarettes, (in spite of the fact that I don"t smoke) would have cost me more!
So it's allways a bargain! :D

You'r probably right, maybe not what we call "old" but I'm sure it should be at least 60 years old or more because it's in the Netherlands since that time ..., like a lot of keris and keris handles.
I sometimes wonder if there's a country outside of Indonesia where you will be able to find more keris than the Netherlands?

Sajen 14th July 2009 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjors
Thanks Sajen,

Doesn't matter! Two packets of cigarettes, (in spite of the fact that I don"t smoke) would have cost me more!
So it's allways a bargain! :D

You'r probably right, maybe not what we call "old" but I'm sure it should be at least 60 years old or more because it's in the Netherlands since that time ..., like a lot of keris and keris handles.
I sometimes wonder if there's a country outside of Indonesia where you will be able to find more keris than the Netherlands?

For a price like this it's of course a bargain. :)

The Netherlands have indeed a big resource of keris and hilts and nowadays most of the time by better price than in Indonesia. :eek:

Regards,

sajen

ganjawulung 14th July 2009 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
The Netherlands have indeed a big resource of keris and hilts and nowadays most of the time by better price than in Indonesia. :eek:
You are probably right, Sajen. I know last year my "dealer" Yogya-friend has sent more than 1.000 kerises and handles to Holland, and also some to Malaysia, during a keris exhibition there...

But still, thousands of keris population in Jawa, Madura, Bali and Lombok. Old and new products. Yes, I've seen too, some Lombok dealers has dealt with Malaysian collectors too... That's keris life

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 14th July 2009 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
You are probably right, Sajen. I know last year my "dealer" Yogya-friend has sent more than 1.000 kerises and handles to Holland, and also some to Malaysia, during a keris exhibition there...

But still, thousands of keris population in Jawa, Madura, Bali and Lombok. Old and new products. Yes, I've seen too, some Lombok dealers has dealt with Malaysian collectors too... That's keris life

GANJAWULUNG
Hello Ganja,

yes, still many good things you can get in Indonesia when look around but the prices climb up a lot! :(

sajen

erikscollectables 15th July 2009 08:33 PM
3 Attachment(s)
Unfortunately I have not been to Indonesia yet...now I will wait a few years untill the youngest is 4 or 5 before we go. I do not like buying from photo's to much so almost all pieces I have were bought in Holland. Of course some the items were laready more recently imported by dealers here but most have been overhere sind the end of the '40s of last century...

A group of Madura handles and my favorite Donoriko in ivory and the favorite in wood in close ups.

Regards, Erik

ganjawulung 17th July 2009 08:00 AM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
yes, still many good things you can get in Indonesia when look around but the prices climb up a lot! :(
It depends on where and from whom you get them. Jakarta is one of the best place to get all types of kerises of Indonesia...

Here is one of my recent collection. Quite unique Maduran patrem sheath -- with motif of "singa" (lion) and small Maduran patrem handle with "soldier" motif...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 17th July 2009 08:03 AM
4 Attachment(s)
More close ups on the Maduran patrem handle...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 17th July 2009 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Unfortunately I have not been to Indonesia yet...now I will wait a few years untill the youngest is 4 or 5 before we go. I do not like buying from photo's to much so almost all pieces I have were bought in Holland. Of course some the items were laready more recently imported by dealers here but most have been overhere sind the end of the '40s of last century...

A group of Madura handles and my favorite Donoriko in ivory and the favorite in wood in close ups.

Regards, Erik
Dear Erik,

our youngest son haven't been one year old when he go to Indonesia first time. It's no problem to travel in Indonesia with children.

BTW, nice collection Erik.

sajen

Sajen 17th July 2009 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
It depends on where and from whom you get them. Jakarta is one of the best place to get all types of kerises of Indonesia...

Here is one of my recent collection. Quite unique Maduran patrem sheath -- with motif of "singa" (lion) and small Maduran patrem handle with "soldier" motif...

GANJAWULUNG

Wow, very nice patrem keris. Myabe I have to visit Jarkarta by my next visit in Indonesia. It's long time ago that I have been there (1992) but there I buy my first keris handle and by this start my collection! And until now it's one of my favorite keris handles.

sajen

ganjawulung 17th July 2009 03:30 PM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Wow, very nice patrem keris. Myabe I have to visit Jarkarta by my next visit in Indonesia. It's long time ago that I have been there (1992) but there I buy my first keris handle and by this start my collection! And until now it's one of my favorite keris handles.
And not to forget to visit The National Museum of Jakarta, Sajen. They have beautiful collections of Indonesian kerises in excellent dresses and excellent accessories too... Whether they are javanese, Riau, Palembang, Minang, Banjarmasin kerises....

And this is more keris sheath of my recent collection. A quite unique motif of sheath -- bird-motif. IMHO, it is a Maduran sheath...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 17th July 2009 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
And not to forget to visit The National Museum of Jakarta, Sajen. They have beautiful collections of Indonesian kerises in excellent dresses and excellent accessories too... Whether they are javanese, Riau, Palembang, Minang, Banjarmasin kerises....

And this is more keris sheath of my recent collection. A quite unique motif of sheath -- bird-motif. IMHO, it is a Maduran sheath...

GANJAWULUNG

Dear Ganja,

yes, this will be the main reason to visit Jakarta! It will be also nice to see a great collection of a private man over there!!! :D :D :D ;)

Very interesting and awesome sheat, terima kasih for sharing.

Detlef

David 17th July 2009 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
It depends on where and from whom you get them. Jakarta is one of the best place to get all types of kerises of Indonesia...

Here is one of my recent collection. Quite unique Maduran patrem sheath -- with motif of "singa" (lion) and small Maduran patrem handle with "soldier" motif...

GANJAWULUNG
Nice example of this form of dress. I don't think it is particularly unique as i have seen quite a few of this style, but yours has nice attention to detail. It has always been my understanding that this particular form was made for Dutch soldiers to bring home keris from Jawa back in the day. Sort of the original "tourist" keris. Perhaps others know different. :shrug: :)

ganjawulung 17th July 2009 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
It has always been my understanding that this particular form was made for Dutch soldiers to bring home keris from Jawa back in the day. Sort of the original "tourist" keris. Perhaps others know different. :shrug: :)
Yes, probably you are right, David. Anyway, it is a funny motif -- not so mystical at all...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 17th July 2009 09:02 PM
In my opinion are this jurigan sheaths very attractive. You can find some with very fine and unique carvings.

sajen

Rick 18th July 2009 01:52 AM
I find the bird form wrongko fascinating and beautiful .
The lion is nicely done also .

Sajen 18th July 2009 02:18 AM
1 Attachment(s)
A other jurigan sheat.

sajen

ganjawulung 18th July 2009 07:38 AM
3 Attachment(s)
Similar type of handle. Small hilt for patrem...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 18th July 2009 07:42 AM
3 Attachment(s)
The complete composition of the hilt, with medium size keris and javanese "sandhang walikat" (informal) type of warangka, made of "mangga hutan" (forest mango tree) wood...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 18th July 2009 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I find the bird form wrongko fascinating and beautiful .
The lion is nicely done also .
Yes, but I think David is right too -- the hilt is not well executed. Not good quality of carving. And I don't think this "lion" model is not a "serious model". I mean, not a standard model for traditional Maduran keris... A touristique model, but funny and cute -- especially the lion

GANJAWULUNG

David 18th July 2009 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Yes, but I think David is right too -- the hilt is not well executed. Not good quality of carving. And I don't think this "lion" model is not a "serious model". I mean, not a standard model for traditional Maduran keris... A touristique model, but funny and cute -- especially the lion

GANJAWULUNG
Just to qualify my earlier statement, yes, i think these were made for Dutch soldiers, but i really like them when they are well executed. They my be the first "tourist" keris, but i would still like to add a nice one to my collection sometime as i feel this is an important part of keris history and the history of Madura. :)

ganjawulung 19th July 2009 11:39 AM
Dutch Face with Moustache
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Just to qualify my earlier statement, yes, i think these were made for Dutch soldiers, but i really like them when they are well executed. They my be the first "tourist" keris, but i would still like to add a nice one to my collection sometime as i feel this is an important part of keris history and the history of Madura. :)
Another Maduran "tourist" warangka and hilt... You may regard the "dutch face with moustache" on one side of the hilt...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 19th July 2009 11:42 AM
2 Attachment(s)
Complete composition of Maduran hilt and sheath...

Sajen 26th July 2009 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Complete composition of Maduran hilt and sheath...

A very nice composition.

sajen


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