Ok, some more pictures of the inscriptions on this yataghan. The more I look into these, the less sure I am they are legible, but I would appreciate if anyone gives it a try.

Again, thank you in advance.

Teodor

Teodor,
I really enjoyed this thread . Thank you and the rest of the gang for posting them.
Regarding yours with the rhino handle.
There is a cavity between the cheeks. I do not think I have seen such a completely "disassembled" handle before. Anybody knows whether this space in yataghans in general was filled with some kind of putty or was the handle hollow inside and kept by rivets only? Of course, they all had some kind of metal ribbon around the entire handle.

I have had two Yats with portions of the grip strap missing and neither of them were filled, just the rivets holding the slabs against the strapping....the kilij seen here;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13639

Also has a grip strap that requires attaching to the top and bottom near the guard and it too is not filled in completely, just appears that what has oozed past the tang during original application has fallen in the gap....perhaps a standard Turkish method of manufacture.

Thank you Ariel. I believe Gav is correct - usual hilt construction on yataghans, including those with metal hilts is that the scales are not glued to the tang, but are held by rivets only, and this hollow space is covered by the metal band in the middle of the hilt. There are probably exceptions, but the majority of the damaged hilts I have seen follow this method of attachment.

My guess is that this was done to preserve scarce hilt material, such as walrus ivory, and to create an illusion that the scales were carved out of a giant piece of ivory or horn.

Regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor
Tks for pic's, they are exploitables, and at first view, could be possible to get something, at least ... some ;)
just need few time, we'll be absent until May 2nd, be patient and optimistic :p

à +

Dom

just a taste .... :p

SANA 1290 either YEAR 1873

Cheers

Thank you Dom, I promise to stay patient and optimistic.
Teodor

Hi,
I could only read this part, but I am very curious about the circles. This is the first time I see such circles on a yatağan. Although I cannot read it, there are arabic letters and symbols inside the circles which I am not very familiar. Also if I remember correctly, I have seen the symbol, in which amel-i Halil is written, in elsewhere and somebody claimed it to be a Bektashi symbol.

Thank you very much Zifir,

This is very helpful. I have also seen the symbol one other yataghan blades, even though it is not a very common one. I did not know of its significance by now though. I gues if it is indeed a Bektashi symbol, this would simply mean that the owner or the maker (Halil) has some sort of a Janissary connection.

Hopefully, we will be able to learn more about the circles at some point.

Regards,
Teodor

hi
as well as Zifir, we cannot read it, the arabic letters and symbols inside the circles. :shrug:
precision might be bring:
- AMEL means => the blacksmith
- SAHAB (SAHEB) means => the owner

on the pic jointed, has been translated
HUSSAIN SAHAB either OWNER HUSSAIN
very sorry to don't be more efficient :o

à +

Dom

Thank you Dom, I appreciate it.

The circles are quite unique, but maybe they exist on another blade, in a more legible form. If such a blade surfaces at some point in the future, it may help with the translation of this one. Or at least this is all we can hope for.

Thanks again Dom and Zifir for your help.

Teodor

My Bulgarian friend, who collects yataghans, has asked me to post three of his latest acquisitions here with the hope of getting the blade inscriptions translated.
Many thanks in advance,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,
Pretty standard inscriptions, accompanied by my haphazard translations :D

Best,

Zifir, thank you very much, excellent as always. I really appreciate the effort you have put in placing the translation text on the pictures: this thread is slowly becoming a database of inscriptions.
Regards,
Teodor

Add on.
 

Perhaps I should post my Yataghan here as well, to make it a one stop archive. My apologies if this is redundant, If I had seen this thread earlier I would have posted here only. The buffalo horn grip scales are a replacement made by me in a style I am familiar with from a yataghan I owned some years ago. The originals were gone, and had been replaced with painted plaster.

Here is yet another yataghan blade insription for translation, many thanks in advance.
Teodor

While waiting for th translation on the rpevious one, here is another yataghan with a similar in style (as far as it is applied to the blade) inscription.

Thank you in advance,
Teodor

Hopefully Zifir or someone else will be able to help with the inscriptions from my previous two posts. In the meantime, I am going to add another yataghan with an inscription that needs translation t the archive in this thread.

Thank you,
Teodor

Hi Teodor
unfortunately, it's only Zifir who is able to translate the Turkish "ancient"
Zifir is a professor in university,
they are may be in examinations period ?
also be patient and keep fingers crossed :p

à +

Dom

Thank you for responding Dom,
I am grateful for all the help that Zifir and the other translators, like your spouse, have provided in this forum. These inscriptions have remained on the blades for centuries and will be there for many more years, so there is no particular hurry. I am sure that when Zifi comes by the forum, he will look at them. In the meantime, I am simply adding further examples to this thread as they come up.
Teodor

Here are three photos of inscriptions and a maker's mark on yataghan blades. I received them from a friend in Bulgaria with a plea for translation. I apologize for not having photos of the entire yataghans: I am trying to obtain those shots. However, in light of contributing so many yataghans to this forum, I hope that I may be granted an exception in this case from our gracious translators.

As always, all help in translating these inscriptions and marks is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Teodor

I received pistures of the whole items and it turns out only one of them is a yataghan, the others are small knives, which I believe are modern replicas from India. Still, I would appreciate a translation just to know if these knives actually copy old inscriptions, or if their creators simply apply some jibberish.

I do not believe the Sumatran pedang has an inscription, but I am including it just in case, since it came with the rest of the pictures.

Thank you,
Teodor

Teodor, it seems I missed many posts in this thread. I will try to make it up.
The inscriptions in post # 60 seemed problematic at the first sight, the first one and the maker's seal in the last picture make some sense and are somehow readable, but the second one is jibberish. I think the longer it gets, the more difficult to imitate.




Post # 55)

Amel-i Osman Sahib ü Malik İbrahim Ağa
Ya Hafiyyü'l-eltaf neccina mimma nehaf Sene 1271

Work of Osman, Owner İbrahim Agha
O God, whose bounties are hidden, deliver us from the ones we fear Year 1854/55

Bu bıçağı kıl mübarek ey Kerim la-yezal
Sahibine verme ya Rab ömrü oldukça zeval

O God, the most generous and everlasting, make this knife blessed
Don't let any harm come to the owner of this knife in his life

Post # 56)

Ey gönül bir can içün her cana minnet eyleme
İşret-i dünya içün sultana minnet eyleme

Oh heart do not abase yourself to everyone just for a life
Do not abase yourself to the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

Amel Elhac Ahmed Sahib Osman Sene 1275
Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir Ahmed

Work of Elhac Ahmed, Owner Osman, Year 1858/59
O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Ahmed who is one of your followers


Post # 57)

Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir
Amel-i Şerif Sahib Eyyüb? sene 1241

O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of...
Work of Şerif, Owner Eyyüb, Year 1825/26


Post # 60

1) Amel-i Yunus 1209 (Work of Yunus, Year 1794/95)


3) Amel-i Muhammed (Work of Muhammed)

The one with the T-handle is a Zeibek one, IMHO.
http://www.timsah.com/Zeybek-Dance-COKERTME/nTVV0PBAXku

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the translations. The yataghans in posts 55 & 56 were similar in terms of their decoration, and were made in a span of 4 years, but as we now know thanks to your translation, by different smiths. Also, thank you for cinfirming my suspicions about the inscripions on the modern Indian daggers: it must indeed be difficult for contemporary kotgari artists to copy old inscriptions.

Ariel, good observation on the T-shaped hilt. I have always assumed that it is an Anatolian feature, but now you have linked it more specifically to the southern parts of Asia Minor, facing the Aegean. I am sure that period photos, if any come up, will further confirm this. I am assuming you were referring to the yataghan in post 17, since it is the only one in this thread with this type of hilt.

Many thanks to everyone again,
Teodor

Here is another one for translation, many thanks in advance to Ziir or anyone else who attempt to unlock the meaning of the inscriptions.

Teodor

Better pictures uploaded.

Teodor,
Translation as promised and sorry for the delay.

Best,

Zifir, thank you very much! Interesting inscription. On the second picture, which word means sword, as I do not see kilic anywhere?

Teodor

The Ottoman word is "tiğ-ı teber" which I translated as sword. "Tiğ" or "tegh" is a Persian word for sword, much used by the Ottomans especially in poems. "Teber" or "tabar" is also a Persian word meaning "axe" or "axe shaped". The combination of these two is a curious one, probably an Ottoman literary invention, I translate it literally as "naked sword" but in the text I used sword instead. If there is anyone whose native language is Persian in the forum, I would also like to hear their opinion.

Best,

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the explanation.

Teodor

I have received pictures of one more yataghan. Can you please help translate the inscriptions?

Thank you,
Teodor

After viewing all of the beautiful yataghans, I apologize in advance for hitching a ride on this thread ;I know that this is a site for ethnographic weapons, but after all this is a yataghan (kinda of).
I was wondering if the gold inscription on the blade has any meaning or is merely put there for the consumption of the Nato troops, making an Enfield bayonet fetch more money.

Zifir,

When you read this thread, can you also translate these Ottoman seals?

Thank you,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,
You can find translations in the attachments.
Regards,

Thank you very much Zifir, you are a priceless asset to this forum.

Teodor

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

Salaams Teodor,

In the second photo, the writing is in Turkish, but I could understand from the second line the following inscription:

عمل عثمان صاحب علي

Translation: Made by Othman, the owner is Ali.

Also, the date is 1231 AH...which corresponds to 1815 C.E.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

As for the third photo:

The inscription reads:

عمل محمود صاحب حسن أغا سنة 1280

Translation: "Made by Mahmoud [for the] owner [who] is Hassan Agha in the year 1280 AH [which corresponds to 1862 or 1863 CE]".

Note: All other inscriptions are not in Arabic, and therefore are NOT Qur'anic.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

Ahmed,

Thank you very much!

Teodor

Turkish part of the inscription - though I am not sure about the last word. And my translation to English is as close as possible to Turkish meaning.
Best,