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-   -   A curious Japanese? sword (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27041)

ausjulius 24th June 2021 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip (Post 263625)
To further show the disconnect between tunkou and habaki, here are earlier examples demonstrating that the Chinese version is of Inner Asian origin. The left image is of a Khazar saber, 9th-11th cent. AD, of a form encountered in a wide expanse of western Asia and eastern Europe. The right one is from a Seljuk saber blade, 11th-12th cent., found in Iran. The feature lived on stylistically (chiseled into the blade, not a separate sleeve) into Mamlûk times (15th cent. Egypt). The tunkou does not appear on Chinese sabers until the end of the 16th cent. at earliest and started to fade from popularity in the 19th.

on the chinese sword with rat tail tangs the blade collar is a vestigial decoration. comming from the mongol and turkic nomads swords... the Middle Easterners disguarded the collar as the swords became more and more curved withthe appearence of firearms and decline of heavy armor.
the functions of tuese swords blade collars for mounted nomads was probably to improve sheath retention and i suspect by the long blades.. some found are over 120cm blades.. . narrow guards and canted grips. that they were grasping around the guard in their mounted thrusts... (some blades have even reinforced tips for gamberson and mail peircing) if i was a guessing man it may well be where europeans even gone t the idea to grasp the ricasso with the index finger. i cant find any artworks of the time showing nomads doing this and you dont need the blade collar to do it just a blunt ricasso. but then who did the pictures of those times.. it wasnt nomads.. .

on the japanese sword the blade collar has a differebt function.. the swird is shimmed and pegged togeather and a soft metal adjustable shock obsorbing metal is needed thatis wider than the blade. this collar hols the guard steady abd can be used with shims between it abd the guard to make the fit tighter.. it also can hold the blade in the sheath but for a different reason.. to avoide sheath contact with the blade.. to protect the polish.

Philip 24th June 2021 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius (Post 263821)
it may well be where europeans even gone t the idea to grasp the ricasso with the index finger.

That was the case with the talwar used by the Mughals. As you know, many of these sabers have quite small grips. Whereas the talwar was a traditional weapon in the Muslim-influenced northern part of India, and many of the people are quite large in stature. This may explain the so-called Indian ricasso, which of course is blunt but also tends to be slightly wider than the cutting area of the blade. Holding a talwar with the index finger over this ricasso makes it more comfortable to hold, and stabilizes the weapon very well in the hand, allowing excellent control The potential for injury was not a problem since Indian swordsmanship calls for a buckler or a cattar in the left hand for parrying.

This manner of holding the talwar is often depicted in Mughal battle scenes.

Norman McCormick 1st July 2021 06:33 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hi,
An example of similar utility fittings on another Korean sword.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick 1st July 2021 06:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi,
An example of double hilt fixing on a Korean sword. The pommel cap is missing but it looks as if it could have been of a similar variety to mine and the sword in the previous post.
Regards,
Norman.

Philip 1st July 2021 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick (Post 264001)
Hi,
An example of similar utility fittings on another Korean sword.
Regards,
Norman.

This is a typical rank-and-file military sword (saber, actually) of the late Joseon period (ending 1910). It is called hwando. Not all types of Korean hilts were made with cord wrapping on the grip but this variety generally had braid wrap as seen here; note that the material was wider and knotted differently than the Japanese pattern which it superficially resembles.

On [Ihwando[/I], of which there are several subtypes, there is a combo of Japanese and Chinese design elements. The grip wrap and the habaki are representative of the former, and the suspension system of two bands and a perforated bar along the dorsal edge of the scabbard is Chinese. Some hilts had a flaring oval "mandarin hat" pommel in the Qing fashion. Blades, depending on subtype, are a blend of stylistic traditions. This scabbard is covered with a coarse fabric which is lacquered-over, this is typically Korean manufacture.


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