There are pipes for that? :eek:

Please refer to this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2660 :D :D

Well said tc , They will still come up with the excuse that your home could be robbed thereby supplying criminals with weapons .
I think at least one of us has had their collection stolen .
I agree about economic despair; welfare was supposed to take care of that .
In some cases welfare has actually exacerbated that problem .

A few of us have taken notice of Alan's steamroller on the horizon ; most of us have not .

Which , by the way, is getting rather raunchy and well past PG13 . :rolleyes:

I'm feeling some remorse today . :o

Experiencing a sexism hang-over Rick? :p
Maybe we should ask Ann and some of the other VERY FEW (wonder why?) women who participate on these forums to give you boys a good talking too.
As Julliette Lewis said to Woody Harrelson in "Natural Born Killers" after he killed the old indian guy, "BADBADBADBADBADBADBAD!!!" :D

IN THE USA THE PRESS AND LIBERALS HAVE CREATED A CLASS SYSTEM FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT VERY RICH OR FAMOUS. THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA THEY CONTORL TO TELL US HOW BAD SOME GROUPS HAVE BEEN TREATED IN THE PAST WHILE TRYING TO SHAME OTHER GROUPS INTO LAYING DOWN AND BEING DESTROYED FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. IT IS CALLED THE MINORITY PLAN AND ENCOURAGES HATRED, FEAR AND MISTRUST AMOUNG ALL THE CLASSES BELOW THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS. WELFARE IS SET UP TO JUST KEEP YOU AFLOAT BUT ITS EASY FOR EVEN THE UNEDUCATED TO SEE THAT THEY HAVE NO FUTURE AND IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF HARD WORK AND LUCK TO BREAK OUT AND BE SUCESSFUL. THE MEDIA AND LIBERALS TELL THEM ITS THE OTHER CLASSES FAULT SO YOU SHOULD PROTEST BY HAVING A RIOT AND LOOT AND BURN UP ALL THE BUSINESS IN YOUR NEBHORHOOD. NOTHING THE PRESS LIKES BETTER THAN A GOOD RIOT OR DISASTER AND ITS NOT THE POOR LOOTERS WHO GET THE BLAME ITS THE CLASS THAT HAPPENS TO BE IN THE MEDIA CROSS HAIRS ALL THE TIME.

THIS SETS UP THE WORKING CLASS AND THE NON WORKING CLASS TO BE AGAINST EACH OTHER MAKEING IT EASIER TO CONTROL BOTH GROUPS. THOSE WHO THINK THEY ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY THE ENTIRE SOCIETY WILL TAKE THE WELFARE BUT HATE THE SYSTEM AND OFTEN TURN TO VIOLENCE AND CRIME TO GET EVEN WITH THE SYSTEM. THEY THINK THE WORKERS ARE FOOLS AND ENJOY TAKEING WHAT THEY WORK FOR AWAY FROM THEM.

IN MY AREA WE HAVE MULTIPLE LOCAL PROBLEMS
1. ELITE POLITICIANS WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN ENRICHING THEMSELVES AT EVERYONE ELSES EXPENSE.
2. MEDIA CONTROLLED BY THE VERY RICH WHO ALSO WORK WITH OR OWN THE POLITICIANS.
3.THE CLASS SYSTEM THEY HAVE SET UP AND THE HATE ,MISTRUST AND FEAR IT ENCOURAGES.
4. THE PRESS CONSTANTLY OPENS OLD WOUNDS AND MAKES THEM A DAY TO REMEMBER WHAT ONE GROUP DID TO THE OTHER GROUP ON THAT DATE 100 YEARS OR SO AGO SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN OR FORGIVEN. THEN THE LAWYERS JUMP IN FIND A DISGRUNTLED FAMILY MEMBER OR SURVIVIOR AND SUE EVERY ONE THEY CAN AND THE TAXPAYERS END UP PAYING THE SETTELMENT AND LAWYERS BILLS. THE TAXPAYERS HAVE MADE MULTI MILLIONARES OUT OF MANY LAWYERS AND MINORITY POLICEMEN AND DISGRUNTLED MINORITYS LOCALLY INSTEAD OF FIXING OUR CITYS PROBLEMS.
5.OUR BIG COMPANYS HIRE LAWYERS WHO TELL THEM HOW TO LEGALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR WORKERS AND GIVE THEMSELVES MILLIONS IN BOUNUS FOR THE BRILLIANT STRADEGY OF LAYING OFF HALF THE WORK FORCE. SENDING THE JOBS OVERSEAS OR ONLY LETTING THEIR CUSTOMERS TALK TO ANSWERING MACHINES AND OF COURSE LAYING OFF ANYONE 50 YEARS OLD AND NOT HIREING 50 YEARS OR OVER UNLESS ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY. THEY HOPE TO SET IT UP WHERE EMPLOYEES SHOULD FIND A NEW JOB EVERY 4.5 YEARS SO NONE WILL EVER BE VESTED TO DRAW RETIREMENT. THE CEO WHO CAN SUCESSFULLY DO THESE THINGS USUALLY PUTS A FEW 100 MILLION IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT.
5.OUR STATE LEADERS HAVE DECIDED THAT WE CAN GAMBLE OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY. WE NOW HAVE MORE GAMBELING CASINOS HERE THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY THEY ARE MAKEING A LOT OF MONEY BUT OUR TAX'S ,WATER BILLS AND EVERYTHING ARE GOING UP A LOT EVEN THOUGH WE WERE PROMISED THE GAMBELING MONEY WOULD NOT MAKE THAT NECESSARY.
6. AT THE CURRENT RATE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THE AREA WE WILL BE THIRD WORLD AND SPEAKING SPANISH IN 10 YEARS IF THEY ALLOW US TO STAY HERE.
7. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS COME HERE FOR THE OPORTUNITY TO WORK AND THEY ALSO TAKE GOOD JOBS NOT ONLY THOSE THE AMERICANS ARE TOO LAZY TO DO AND DON'T WANT. IT IS ALSO THE LAND OF GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR CRIMINALS ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THIRD WORLD COUNTRYS SO WE HAVE OUR LOCAL BAD GUYS AND MANY FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ALSO.

8.CRIME IS SKYROCKETING, DRUG DEALING, GANGS FORIGN AND DOMESTIC,GAMBELING, BURGARLY, AND VIOLENT CRIMES SUCH AS MURDER ARE WAY UP. AND OF COURSE THE CITY NEEDS TO RAISE OUR TAXES SOME MORE BECAUSE WE NEED MORE POLICE AND SCHOOL TEACHERS AS USUAL.
8. BUT NEVER FEAR OUR LEADERS WILL FIX IT ALL BY TAKEING GUNS, KNIVES AND ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE USED FOR SELF DEFENCE AWAY FROM THE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. THE CRIMINAL WILL STILL HAVE THEM AND THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS WILL HAVE THEIR WELL ARMED SECURITY FORCES OR BODY GAURDS AND SPECIAL POLICE PROTECTION TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROTECTED SO THEY CAN LOOK AFTER US. :rolleyes:

ONCE A BODY OF PEOPLE ARE GIVEN THE JOB OF MAKEING A LAW TO TAKE AWAY SOMETHING FROM THE LAW ABIDING THEY ARE NEVER SATISFIED AND WILL KEEP TAKEING MORE AWAY AND MAKEING MORE LAWS AFTER ALL THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR JOBS.

WHEN NATURAL RIGHTS BECOMES A PRIVILEGE THEN ONLY THE PRIVELEGED WILL HAVE THOSE RIGHTS!

I AM SURE I COULD COME UP WITH MORE RANTS BUT THATS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

Vandoo, from your observations, there indeed seems to be a
DIVIDE AND CONQUER mentality.........and lets face it most Sovereign Countries, that have accumilated Empires, used this method to good effect.

Create dis-harmony amongst the population...... and while they are arguing and fighting..... you quietly take control...

Divide and conquer?

Yes.

But divide and rule is perhaps the more correct dictum.

There is no taking of control whilst the populace is otherwise occupied. That control is maintained by keeping the populace occupied with matters that prevent them from thinking about the management of their society by government.

What Barry has described is exactly the practical application of the principle.

However, whichever political party may appear to be managing government, that political party's leaders are themselves being managed by the people, groups of people, and organisations which are at the top of the societal tree.

Anybody here remember Vietnam?

Remember what happened to the Dow every time there were rumours of peace?

And what happened after each major offensive?

Where has the middle class in developed societies gone?

Does the period during which the decline of this middle class has occurred correspond to the period during which western capital has transferred its manufacturing operations to China, its administrative processes to India and Singapore, and whatever other transferable processes it can identify to places where wage rates are very much below what the wage rates are in developed countries?

What is the nature of the employment that remains available for the present and rising generations in developed countries?

Blind Freddy can see that there is no longer the foundation in industry nor commerce which produced the middle class that arose following the industrial revolution.

The wheel of history has turned and wealth, and along with it, position in society, is now in the process of polarising to the situation that was in place in Europe prior to the industrial revolution.

Before this polarisation is complete, there will be a lot of very unhappy people in the populations of the developed countries. If the elite wish to have a reasonable chance of controlling these people , and of managing the economies of these countries, it is necessary for the populations of these countries to be re-engineered into docility and obediance.

There are many tools that can be employed to achieve these ends, and one of these tools is the disarming of the populace. You cannot disarm any group of people that believes in the sanctity of weaponry, nor its necessity to maintain civilian life and protect personal property.

Thus, where a society is already very stable and well controlled, as it is in Australia, you can immediately indoctrinate the community, commencing in school, with the belief that only sociopaths and criminals possess any form of weapon.

Where a society is a little less well controlled, you need to create the conditions where people will believe in the lesser of two evils. By encouraging a proliferation of civilian weaponry in a society that already has severe social schism, and at the same time setting in place social policies that exacerbate that schism, ultimately you will produce a situation where murder and mayhem will become routine. At this point you offer the solution, and that solution will involve severe restrictions that would not be tolerated in a well ordered society.

Those of us with an interest in weaponry are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. We probably all should have been born at least 100 years ago. We are dinosaurs, we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. But we are human dinosaurs, and as humans, we have the power of reason. We may not be able to stop the wheel of time from turning, but we can deduce what it may crush next, and we can step to one side. Along with our collections.

It is important, I believe, to view this entire process with an appreciation of the time frame that could be involved. I think world population is due to peak somewhere within the next 50 years or so. If China continues development at its present rate it will dominate world trade, and by extension, world economics and military power, within 20 to 30 years. Probably the completion of US societal re-engineering cannot be seriously advanced within a time frame that will impact greatly upon anybody reading this. However, there is no doubt that in the more ordered societies of Western Europe, and in my own country, Australia, we can expect to see a continued truncation of civil liberties.Within my lifetime I expect to see many of my present "privileges" (in this country we do not have "rights") reduced or removed. My age is 65.

A request to all thread participants (but no one in particular)...
 

It's inevitable that this topic will slide inexorably toward politics. However, let's all please stay away from polarizing the discussion with references to "liberal/conservative" or party politics.

I know my request is a difficult one to adhere to, given the nature of the discussion, but none of us should be eager to see this thread deteriorate into political debate. I am also aware that I, myself, have made somewhat political comments on this thread. Its an interesting and relevant discussion to our forum and, well, I want to participate and see it continue. :cool:

Let's try to keep the discussion objective and cool. I don't think any of the world's power elite post here, so we should be okay blaming them for everything. :D

A. G. Maisey your comments are well founded, like you I believe that there are unseen forces whch are dictating a change in social order. What is trully worrying is that this phenomena appears to be Global, many of us, be it British, American, Australian etc. have noticed the same errotion of civil liberties and a gradual shift of power ( both social and economic) to a small minority within each country's population.
The concerns of us (as collectors) regarding the possible reviews of 'knife law' seem to have only scratched the surface of a much larger problem.......the continuing loss of individual human rights.

There is a social order, where individual rights are unheard of, where each member works and lives (unquestionably) for the benefit of the whole
community, which sustains ONE individual.
They are ANTS....... the question is not 'are we mice or men' but rather, are we Ants or men..................... :(

More and more the world is not run by governments but by corporations of all kinds .
To answer your question, yes you are still a man ; but more important than that you are a consumer .

Sad business...
 

I think that will is the only weapon that man -or any other creature- needs. Knives or any tools are irrelevant; if one has the will to hurt or do damage, there's no law that can stop him/her. These ridiculous laws are indeed just methods of control, the problem is that the frogs don't want to accept what they should already know. The establishment is so well controlled that genuine concerns of liberty, rights, etc, are simply not addressed. The frogs know they're boiling, but they have no will to get out of the pan -and even worse, they lack the will to shut off the flame even when they can.

What I find mind-boggling is just the huge number of people that are frogs in this world, and when other frogs try to jump out of their kettles and they bump ours, we get upset and start fights.

The comments made by fellow forumites are right on the money. Another, part of the problem with the world, I think, is that it functions upon false assumptions. I believe there is no economic multiplier effect. For one place or person to prosper, another must decline. I also believe that the natural state of mankind is one of inequality. Equality can only be maintained artificially and to some cost by the community, and now -as has been said- the maintenance of that semblance of equality is being eroded and done away with.

Sad...the wheel of time is indeed unstopable. But the false assumptions (including today's globalization/integration/polarization) may still be broken.

About the Knife Amnesty law: I'm sorry for people of the UK, they're being tricked into destroying chunks of their history, and giving up some hard-earned rights.

Right now in Canada, I still have my most of my rights (including that of collecting some artefacts once used as weapons) but fear-mongering regarding jumping frogs has made it harder to speak one's thoughts, and many rights will soon be reduced in the interest of "national security."
Getting out of the way of the roller is only a temporary fix however...put enough people around it, and it'll stop.

Hmm...anyone ever read Atlas Shrugged?

YES I HAVE READ ATLAS SHRUGGED BY AYN RAND IT IS A GOOD READ AS WELL AS EXPRESSING A PHILOSOPHY AND LIKE H.G. WELLS DID PREDICT SOME OF THE FUTURE CONSIDERING WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN.

THE MAIN PROBLEMS WITH SOCALISM AND COMMUNISM IS THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE NOT ALIKE AND WHEN YOU REDUCE THE REWARDS TO THE SAME LEVEL FOR EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT THE JOB OR HOW HARD YOU WORK OR HOW TALENTED THE INDIVIDUAL THEN MOST STOP TRYING. IF ALL YOU ARE PROVIDED BY YOUR KEEPERS IS THE SAME AS EVERYONE, A PLACE TO SLEEP A BOWL OF FOOD A FEW CLOTHES AND A JOB BASED ON WHAT THEY THINK YOU SHOULD DO, NOT ON YOUR TALENTS OR WANTS WHY DO ANY MORE WORK THAN YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO. THE KEEPERS WHO CONTROL EVERYTHING LIVE THE GOOD VERY RICH LIFE AND COME DOWN VERY HARD ON ANYONE WHO DOSEN'T DO AS THEY ARE TOLD SO MANY EXAMPLES ARE MADE FOR MINOR INFRACTIONS. THE ONLY WAY THIS WOULD WORK FOR LONG IS IF THE MAJORITY ARE EDUCATED FROM BIRTH TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE TOLD WITHOUT REASONING IT OUT LOGICALLY AND KEPT FROM KNOWING WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. PERHAPS YOU COULD KEEP THEM UNEDUCATED OR DRUGGED TO HAVE THE PERFECT ZOMBIE WORK FORCE, UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE KEEPERS, IN TODAYS WORLD ZOMBIES DON'T MAKE A VERY GOOD WORK FORCE NO MATTER HOW CHEAP THEY WORK.

HUMANS ARE ALL WIRED TO SURVIVE AND AQUIRE THE THINGS WE INSTINTLY NEED FOR A GOOD LIFE, WE WANT TO HAVE A WIFE A FAMILY, FOOD,SHELTER, BELONGINGS AND FUN. SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE BORN WITH MORE TALENT AND DRIVE AND WILL GET BETTER JOBS AND MAKE BETTER DECISIONS THAN OTHERS. SOME WILL USE WHAT TALENTS THEY HAVE AND STILL HAVE MOST OF THE THINGS EVERYONE WANTS BUT NOTHING EXTRA AND BE VERY CONTENT AS THEY DID THE WORK THEMSELVES AND TAKE PRIDE IN THAT. THERE HAVE TO BE GOOD LAWMAKERS AS THAT IS WHAT KEEPS THOSE WHO ARE VERY POWERFUL FROM TAKEING WHAT THOSE WITH LESS TALENTS AND POWER HAVE WORKED FOR. THAT IS WHERE THE CHIEF PROBLEM WITH THE USA COMES IN WE NEED PEOPLE IN A POSITION OF POWER TO CONTROL THE GREED OF THOSE WITH LOTS OF MONEY AND POWER. BUT THE ONES WITH THE HUNGER TO TAKE IT ALL FOR THEMSELVES HAVE MOST OF THE POWER THIS IS THE CASE IN MANY OTHER COUNTRYS AS WELL. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE WHEN YOU GET SO MUCH MONEY AND POWER THAT IT DOSEN'T THRILL YOU OR MAKE YOU FEEL POWERFUL TO ADD SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS TO YOUR PILE ANY MORE. THEN YOU LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY UNDER YOUR THUMB WITH NOTHING AND STRUGGLEING TO SURVIVE AND YOU CAN TAKE IT ALL AWAY AT WILL WHICH MAKES YOU FEEL BIG AGAIN. ITS CALLED BEING A DICTATOR BUT IS REFERED TO IN OTHER TERMS IN MANY COUNTRYS. JUST GUESSING ABOUT THE VERY POWERFUL THEY STAY BEHIND THE SCENES AND I AM CERTIANLY NOT ONE OF THEM SO MUST GO ON HISTORY AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS.
I HAD NOT PLANNED TO POST AGAIN ON THIS TOPIC BUT THE REFRENCE TO ATLAS SHRUGGED MADE ME DO IT :p

So in light of the different theories of where we're headed, what's everyone have planned for their collections. I went through a house fire over a year ago, caused by a smoking tenant, my family was not harmed (thank God) and for some uncanny reason my entire collection was spared damage, but I've downsized quite a bit after a move...when I saw the place up in flames I kissed everything goodbye but was suprised to be able to recover all my belongings, sooner or later the artifacts need to be preserved by the next generation, maybe move them on to close relatives and friends, also universities and museums I've worked with...

Dude, you must have seen RollerBall.

(Sorry - having flashbacks). :D

Mabagani et al ,
I seriously don't know what to do with most of mine ; a few might be museum worthy but only if I know that they would never be deacessioned ; if that's going to happen then I'll sell them myself .
If I knew of my imminent demise I believe that I would offer some of them to fellow forum members who I know would respect them and keep them safe; I'm not saying for free ; more like for cost or possibly a little less .
I would like to see my Moro stuff go back into that community to further enhance that culture from which so much has been stolen .
A few pieces I would leave to my Son ; all in all I want to have these artifacts live on being appreciated rather than locked in a drawer to slowly rust in a museum .

No joking please; I'm serious .

I've just been watching the T.V. News..... Apparently ...even with the 'knife amnesty' ....23 people have died from Knife attacks (in G.B.) in the past 5 weeks, NOW people are saying the amnesty ,does and will, not work. Well, I think that we have concluded as much. My sympathies to all the families and friends of the victims. One case in particular stands out.....a man walking home with his girlfriend.... is fatally stabbed 7 times by a complete stranger with NO motive at all......and the perpetrator IS STILL AT LARGE.
This guy, (the murderer) must be some sort of psychopath....yes a knife was used....but if a knife was not available I am sure he would have used something else.....a wood chisel....a hammer....an ice pick.....a broken bottle.... The knife was the INSTRUMENT, the controlling force ......a mentally imbalanced individual.

I've started a new thread about the disposition of our collections for I think this too is an interesting subject and deserves a thread of it's own .

Possibly they're not all really murders (some of them) but planned random asassinations to create a feeling of panic amongst the sheep .

Call me paranoid if you will .....

No.....Conspiracy Theorist :D
MIND YOU ..it takes one to know one...

I have tried several times to write what I wish to present for consideration, and several times I have failed.

The problem for me is that this entire matter is very complex, but but at its core it is really very simple.

If it is presented as the complex matter it is, any normally intelligent person will become lost in the maze.

Reduce it to simplicity and there is the danger that my comments may be written off as facile and ill informed.

I have opted to try for simplicity, and beg your indulgence if my remarks do seem a little lightweight, however, I would hope that if you dwell upon what I present, you may see some element of truth.

Barry has mentioned the ideologies rooted in Marxist philosophies. What he has said is unquestionably so. These ideologies do not offer any ultimate solution to the organisation and management of society, any more than does any other ideology. It seems that all the ways in which humankind has attempted to organise itself have some flawed elements , and perhaps that is because humankind itself is flawed.

The problems that initiated this discussion are founded upon the imperfections of us all. We are all members of some society, some community, and those societies and communities are managed by people who are no more perfect than are we.

The nature of any community is that it is made up of a number of people who rely on certain undertakings to provide them with sustenance and protection.

Except in exceptional circumstances, the undertakings that the members of a community rely upon for sustenance are not owned jointly by the members of the community, but by certain individuals either within the community, or outside the community.

The members of the community provide the manpower to operate the undertakings, in return they recieve sustenance.

The owner of the undertaking recieves any excess of production above the need for the community`s sustenance, and this is his profit.

If the undertaking is to succeed and provide the community members with sustenance, and the owner of the undertaking with profit, the community must be kept in a state of order. It must be managed, or in political terms, it must be governed.

There are many philosophies and many ideologies that can provide the foundation to allow the management of a community. All have strengths, all have weaknesses, and all are subject to human frailty.

In the world of business, a commercial or industrial undertaking will have an owner, or it may have shareholders and it will have a CEO. It may have a board of directors. The owner or shareholders will tell the board what outcomes they wish to see achieved, the board will determine the ways in which to best achieve those outcomes, and the CEO will do his best to ensure the outcomes are achieved.

Think of the government of a country in the same way as you would think of the management of a business.
There are the owners and shareholders of the undertakings that constitute the economy of the country.
There is the board of directors , or parliament.
There is the CEO.
There are the workers.

Now ask yourself:-

is any sensible businessman going to allow his workers to dictate policy to him?

is he going to permit workers to tell him how to run his business?

He may consult with them and draw upon their knowledge and experience, but he will not be dictated to by them.

It is no different in the management of any country.

Those who own the economy will dictate policy.

The elected representatives will find ways to satisfy those who own the economy, and those who fuel the economy, the workers.

The CEO, or president, or prime minister will execute the will of those behind him. A CEO is a Chief Executive Officer. He executes or carries out orders, decisions, policy. He always has to answer to those behind him , and he is never above the law.

Sometimes the decisions taken by the parliament, or the CEO will be less than wise, but you can be assured that these decisions are always taken with the objective of keeping the community that they are employed to manage in a state of order, and able to maintain the economy.

When we are told that we can no longer own something, or do something you can be certain that the decision to make this restriction has not been lightly taken but it has been taken with the overall objective of maintaining the state of order within a country, society, or community.This state of order is essential to allow the ongoing function of the economy, the continued sustenance of the community, and to provide suitable conditions for the continuation of the human race.

So, when you are told that you can no longer carry a pocket knife in a public place without good and legal reason, you can console yourself with the thought that you are aiding the continuation of the history of mankind.

When you are no longer allowed to own, much less display that implement of death, a sword, you can rest assured that the economy will blossom because of your sacrifice.

You may not be able to alter the way the owner, the board, or the CEO wants to do things, but you can alter your own approach to achieving your own ends.