Szabla husarska (Hussar Saber) is without a doubt the queen of Polish sabers! Beautiful and highly functional. Besides an excellent weapon. But the most I like the final version, with the handle closed.
Great articles and texts. Thank you. :)

Ps. And if you liked my article about this sword? I'm curious opinion. :)

The first results of my work.

Pommel "before":

Pommel "after":

Salaams Ypoznan,

Hello and welcome to the Forum. What a superb website! you post at http://www.navaja.pl/roznosci/76-szabla-husarska.html

Here is all the information needed to begin looking at the replacement restoration hilt . Restoring the hilt following as exact a copy as possible or bringing up an old damaged hilt requires the same formula... "It should always be possible to return to the start point having caused no damage to the original piece" . Provided care is taken and that a basic programme of restoration steps is followed the weapon should be presentable at the end of the work and more or less indistinguishable from an original. Naturally, for those people who are not so handy with workshop practice the alternative is to leave it alone or have it done by an expert.
It is good to see the originator return to Forum where our enthusiasm, leadership and knowledge can assist and promote all aspects therein..through open discussion; always..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Janusz, I have been entirely remiss in not revisiting this thread and I just viewed your attached article....entirely excellent!!!! Thank you so much for posting this and also for sharing the outstanding work you are doing in restoring this sabre.
As Ibrahiim has expertly noted, it is a delicate task, but of such profound importance to carefull restore these weapons so they can be preserved properly. I very much agree that keeping your progress updated will be greatly appreciated.
The history of the Polish Winged Hussars has always been a personal favorite for me, and I know many here who are also deeply intrigued by the colorful history of the Polish cavalry. We have long been aware of the key influences of the weaponry and style they have had on the development of cavalry in the west, and always look forward to learning more. Your work is truly an inspiration !

All very best regards,
Jim

Cześć :)

I'm sorry that I wrote not so long. I was very busy working on my site and noticed no response. :)

Ibrahiim and Jim.
Thank you very much for your warm words about my article. I'm very glad that you liked it. Cold steel is my interest margin (as I wrote earlier), the most interested in knives, especially Spanish Navajas. Article about hussar saber was ... from the heart, so to speak. :) Sabre is inextricably linked with the history of my country and Poland seen as antagonistic in great esteem. Even more glad that you liked it. But I must admit that in this matter (cold steel) I am rather layman. Article about hussar saber is vague, details can be found in the links I have given the article. In any case, once again thank you very much. :)

Jim
Polish Winged Hussars are the subject of pride in my country. One of the most effective formations in the history of Polish military. In addition to looking beautiful. In Poland, almost every boy and man had heard of hussars, even if it is not interested in this temat. Around this formation accumulated many myths and controversies. Even the famous wings. Still not sure whether they really were used in battle. Not all hussars wore them. Some wore only one wing. Military historians and enthusiasts still argue. Images showing the hussars with two huge wings represent the formation of a time when its military power collapsed. She then served as a representative role. Unfortunately, the country was rapidly failing, and with it the hussars. In any case, at the time of its heyday it was certainly one of the best cavalry in this part of Europe (if not in all Europe). Fast, agile, well-armed and trained with great tactics reigned supreme on the battlefields. Aroused fear among opponents. For the first 100 years (more than) its existence does not suffer any defeat. Later, it is true there have been its failure (rare), but they resulted from misuse or inability of the formation commanders. Only the Polish State crisis brought the twilight of this formation. Well, changing tactics and the conditions on the battlefields of course.

Returning to the topic thread. Hussars were using different types of swords, a Hungarian-Polish, hussar saber, other different types (for example, a semi-closed handles), and later karabela. The latter was undoubtedly the most popular sword of the Polish nobility. Acted as both a representative and combat. I plan to write well about karabela, but it is only in the future. :)

Pozdrawiam serdecznie (Best regards)
Janusz

l shaped sword
 

lovely old sword why not look for an original handle,it might take a while but maybe some one in the forum has such a thing ,cant hurt to ask regards napoleon

I think it's not real to find original grip for this sword, that will match the tang and crossguard.

restoration is in process
I will post some pics with the interim results of the work shortly

here are some pics

here are some pics

Evgeny's Sabre
 

Gentlemen,
Trying to establish whether the sabre is Polish or Ukrainian is a bit tough.

The type of blade and the handle is of Polish type but it could have been used by anyone within the Sarmathian culture. (Sarmathian Culture - I mean the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth of XVI-XIXc that Ukraine was a part of).

Big part of Cossacs were part of the State Register - which means they received money from The State to purchase a saddle, "uniform", guns, powder, tobacco, to support a horse etc.
Other Cossacs would be hired by big landlords and equipped in a uniform fashion, where the colors of their garments would be identical and the weapons would follow an identical design (made usually by one manufacture belonging to the landlord).

There were other cossacs as well who fought for expanding of the State Register. They were not a part of any state or private structure and wore any weapon that was in use in the region back then, which could have been Polish, Persian, Turkich, Indian, Georgian, German - whatever.
Plus! If not fo Cossacs, Austria would be a muslim country (Polish, Lithuanian forces saved Vienna in 1681) because nobody in the world did a better job fighting Turks. The natural consequence of the military escapades against Turks was an abundance of oriental artifacts (weapons included) all over Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania.

Generating a new brand of Ukrainian Sword is not so easy because the Sarmathian culture - uniting at that time Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians did not really vary from one region to another.
You could see that Hungarians were a bit different in their "practice" of Sarmathism. Even that is not apparent at the first glance.

It is a bit like trying to define an Austrian sub-type of blue jeans. Whatever we say Blue Jeans are American pants no matter who wears them.

Regards,
Zekir

P.S.
The sword is fantastic. It was an expensive artifact judging from the form of the blade. The weapons distributed by landlords to their cossacs are very practical but simple. This particular weapon belonged to a nobleman (Pole, Lithuanian, Hungarian or Ukrainian).

Thank you, Zekir!

Here are some pics of the blade after desalting and Dremel steel brush cleaning

I fear that your restoration approach with this blade may have been far too aggressive... :eek:

This blade may have been a lost cause before any work was done on it. The only thing that can be done is a chemical cleaning, filing smooth and then finding a way to fill in the pits with metal. I found a shop about five years ago which is willing to try spray welding of on this type of problem. This would be tried in very local areas first. A form of gas welding might work using certain alloys. However it would merely permit re-shaping the blade which would be a reconstruction more than a restoration. It would likely show the alloyed and filed areas as a separate color.

Coin silver has a relatively low melting point. Zinc is even lower. If you are really desperate and have the resources it might be possible to use these metals in sequence. Even an electroplate could be used to fill the final top layer of a filled blade. After finishing the blade would merely look "old and not maintained" instead of like a total disaster. The object is to merely restore the shape and appearance to make a more presentable wall display.

David, it's not "too agressive" :))
Blade is heavily pitted. I've just deasalt it in the distillated water and clean it gently enough. Now I'm going to process it in the tannin solution (corrosion inhibitor).

Salaams fspic, Ypoznan, Evgeny_K et al~ The electroplating is maybe not a bad idea. What caused the damage? The Dremel or the desalting ?... It looks like it was sandblasted?? I must look up dremel ah ! Its the dreaded power tool in restoration... :eek: I think that may have done the damage. By the way has anyone ever done electrolysis on severely rusted blades? www.instructables.com has a couple of tips for this technique though I have to say with a blade as badly corroded as this was...it was never going to be easy. I would go for a few days in something mild like coke or lemon salt clean it off with soapy water and after drying get it covered in restoration wax.
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hello Ibrahiim,
Blade was already damaged because saber was dug up.
Desaltination is a necessary procedure to prevent further corrosion of the metal.
I've just removed with dremel brush mellowed rust from the surface of the blade.
Deep caverns already were on the blade when I get it into my hands.

I am not sure that there is ever a time when it is a good idea to go at an old blade with a steel brush on a dremel. I am not opposed to restoration of old blades, but in my view the least invasive approach is generally that best one. My own viewpoint is a bit different from fspic as i believe that for me the object is not to merely create a more attractive wall hanging. Some of these old blades we collect are irreplaceable pieces of history. In my own collecting experience i therefore believe that i have a certain obligation to preserve this history for study and a better understanding of our past. I am not opposed to cleaning up old blades and fittings to give them the appearance that they once had at the height of their use, but i think that with a blade such as this where the corrosion has reached a certain level, the best thing we can do is to stabilize the blade so that no further damage takes place. :shrug: :)

Well, how restoring doing one side of the blade so it has a representative appearance and leaving the other side as is? At least it cuts work in half. I wouldn't do that with a genuinely historical blade which has a connection with an older historical incident such as an assassination and a resulting uprising.

Well this is not something i would personally consider. If a blade warrants restoration and can actually be restored (i am not sure there was ever really a shot with this one) then i will either attempt it or not. I see no purpose in restoring half a blade. If restoration cannot be done without damaging the blade then it is not restoration is it, and i see no purpose in damaging a blade in order to make it shinier or prettier for display purposes. As for historical value the trouble is that unless you were there, have undeniable provenance or have a time machine it's impossible to tell exactly what the historical importance is of any blade. Maybe it killed many of the original owners enemies. Maybe it was never even drawn from it's sheath for that purpose. And for me even the personal history of a lowly warrior of seemingly little consequence is "important" in my eye. It doesn't matter if it's actions started revolutions or merely fought in insignificant battles that led to nothing. History is history is history and everyone's part in it collectively is what has led to our present.
We all collect for different reasons and all of them are valid. Some swords can be eye candy for proud display, but it it not what directs me to collect them.

Sorry I suspect this LIKE symbol may get annoying, but, I couldn't have stated my sentiments better than David did. We will see how this turns out. Unfortunately I suspect the value (historically and monetarily) of this beautiful saber has plummeted.

Jeff

Jeff and dear all,
I've just remove mellowed rust after 3-4 weeks of soaking in the distilled water. Blade is not cleaned out to shiny naked metal (as it might seem from the photographs). I've leave some rust in the deep caverns. Next step is process the blade in the tannin solution.
Regards,
Evgeny

P.S. I've got another saber from Moscow region (Mozhaysk). Polish or Russian I'm not sure. Will be glad to get any advises from you how to deal with it.

Not any longer.

Salaams Evgeny_K~ Ok I sympathise because excavated metalwork is always a headache to restore. I can see by the first photos that this was never going to be easy though I hope you get a good result with the next phase...Just getting to the point of stabilising the rust will be a considerable step. Best of luck ya.
Regarding your next sword in similar condition ... This looks like another mission impossible ! What is tannin solution please ? I have not heard of it... I will search the web... is this acidic? How long to soak?.. can we see an after photograph please? Good luck !! ...ah wait I have searched the best library.. our own Forum search and now I understand tannin solution... very interesting indeed... Forum search Tannin Solution !!! :)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Evgeny,

My personal opinion is "Less is More". This is a 400-500 year old weapon it should not look new. I know the temptation of using modern power tools, sandblasters, and chemicals, I have tried all of them on old rusty tools as experiments, the results have been less than optimal. You clearly have some knowledge of restoration, but I would implore you not to experiment with these sabers, they are too valuable (even in artifact condition).

All the Best
Jeff

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What he said... :)

Salaams David~ Fair enough except that in their "as found" (excavated condition) they were being devoured by active rust. By expertly removing the salt and deactivating the rust and giving the tannin a shot i think it is salvageable and worth then rebuilding the hilt around. I can't see another alternative. It is difficult to take the rust off a little bit...

Less is more we all know that but this is a basket case scenario... You either give it a go or its smeared in grease and left.. no one likes to do that especially when theres a chance to rebuild a hilt around a salvaged blade... I say give it a good try; lets see the final result but don't expect miracles in the blade area. :shrug:
Meanwhile and perhaps more importantly our library of "restoration knowledge" is being added to...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

:shrug: GREAT THREAD !!!

Ibrahim, i would love for you to point out where exactly i ever stated that it was a bad idea to stabilize the rust so that no further deterioration could take place. I agree with the "less is more" approach in these particular cases, but i never stated that one should do nothing at all. I will maintain however that it is never a good idea to go at a blade with steel brushes on a power tool. When i look at the before and after on this particular blade i can clearly see additional loss along the edge near the tip of the blade, damage which was not there before the restoration began.

David and dear all,
Previously posted photos were taken a year before I got this saber.
Metal loss is a result of the corrosion effect.

[QUOTE=David]Ibrahim, i would love for you to point out where exactly i ever stated that it was a bad idea to stabilize the rust so that no further deterioration could take place.


Salaams David~ I can't because you didn't. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

scabbard mounts in progress:

before (too much rusted)

after (reactivation of the ferric oxide in the carbon environment):

Salaams Evgeny_K ~ I have to say that this is pioneering work !

Considering the state the items were in when you started I think that is an excellent result. I hope the rest of the restoration goes as well. Most museums wouldn't touch this because understandably the sword was on its last legs... Most of us would have given this sword the wax protection and left it at that... Perhaps we have here a viable resusitation technique on what many would have said was a lost cause... This is highly specialised work. Best of luck Evgeny_K. Very impressive.. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thank you, Ibrahiim!
It's not my merit :)
I've asked to help me a person who is engaged in this kind of restoration.



Here is another example of his work (excavated rifle flint lock):




before:

after:

Some electric welding works (I don't use it for the sabers!)...

and... it works now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oz5F...ature=youtu.be

Guys, Don't freak out too much on Evgeny here.

Iron/Steel objects are very challenging. In a conservation lab setting, washing to remove the different chlorides and mechanical cleaning are very typical. The only other thing you really can do is then shield the artifact in an argon-filled bag or container.

Unfortunately, the current research doesn't seem to favor the tannin approach.

Slapping some oil and 000 steel wool on a blade doesn't 'deactivate' corrosion. It's not so clear cut as that, and with blades this corroded the deep imbedded chlorides and other compounds will blister out as they keep working down.

So, not arguing for or against, but just realize that what Evgeny is doing is not too far off for current recommended treatment of such items.

of course, now seeing the electrical welding post, that's totally another matter, and moves beyond any definition of 'conservation'

Regards,


Garrett