Yes, but is this proper proportion which Erik's keris lacks to be found necessarily in a village made keris where the pandai might not be as skilled or knowledgeable. :shrug:

Dear David, I think sense of good proportion is universal language for every keris maker. It is not a matter of village or not-village pandai keris. And in the past, I think good empus were villagers too. Most javanese people in the past were villagers...

GANJAWULUNG

"As for Willem's blade from the other thread, i see why you question it, but frankly i cannot tell from his photos. It is clearly cut through at the tail end of the gonjo which would be a little unusual with gonjo iras, but not impossible. " (by David)

What was interesting for me, that in my example somebody has tryed to make look a ganja iras blade like a normal blade (especially at greneng).

I absolutely can not be sure about Willems blade, but if it is ganja iras (sorry about speculation), there is the same intention. This intention was the point for me: to make something simple to appear
more elaborated (and more expensive, of course).

For the naga blade: I must excuse me, I see, the ganja must be separate.( I thought it is not because of the very straight and clean line between, the opening behind of the "beard" of naga (that goes up to ganja), and the appearance at gandik area.)
Sorry for the stolen time and space!

There are several ways in which a plain blade can be altered to a picture blade --- ie, a blade with a naga or singo barong or whatever.

You can start with a big blade and take material from the tip, which is then welded back at the gandik and carved; or you can try to match the pamor from another similar blade, then you can cover the joint with kinatah work. The very first keris I bought in Indonesia was made in this way.

Very popular was to start with a nice big blade, often a Tuban blade, add nothing, and turn it into a much smaller picture blade.

Or you can start with a Bali blade, and give it a total Jawa treatment, turning it into a Majapahit keris.

These are perhaps the most common "improvements", but there are others.

The blade under discussion here has some rather peculiar features and inconsistencies. Lets just look at this blade without trying to be too correct about terminology.

Look at the proportions:- not good; in fact very peculiar. The blade is stiff, the gonjo is too wide, and flat, and in fact downright ugly. The waves do not leave any feeling of peace in your chest, they are unsettling and awkward, there is no harmony in those waves, and the sorsoran is way out of proportion for the rest of body. If this blade were a man I'd say he was distinctly gawky.

Now look at the surface of the blade:- heavily textured. This surface has seen a lot of acidic solution, but look at the carving of the naga:- clean, crisp, sharp edges to the details, neat round holes, neat, clean eye, maybe even some file marks in a couple of places. I do not think this naga aged at the same rate as the rest of the blade. However, if we try to run extension lines from the ends of the gonjo, the proportions are even worse, unless we run those lines all the way to the point and draw an entirely new pawakan --- then it starts to look right.

Have a look at the grain of the pamor:- does it follow the waves? I rather think not, in fact in a couple of places it seems to curve the opposite way to the wave.

Now have a look at the piercing between the dragon and the gonjo:- clean, smooth, sharp, and entirely out of character.

If we were to write a description of the pamor of the keris we are discussing, and a description of the pamor type associated with Mpu Kasa, yeah, they would read pretty much the same, but I reckon Mpu Kasa would haunt forever anybody who tried to hang this keris on him --- in fact I reckon he might be spinning in his grave right now.

Just looking at the photos, there are a number of different opinions that could be formed about this keris, and personally, I would not be prepared to form any definite opinions unless I handled it, but there are sufficient inconsistencies to make me just a little cautious in respect of this keris.

The alteration of keris blades is not a new thing. It has been going on for a very long time, and I have seen a lot of genuinely old alterations, for instance, on keris that went to Holland well over 100 years ago.

My dear Ganja, i was not implying that there have not been some very, very good village pandai. I have many examples of their fine work in my own collection. However it should also be clear from old examples that there have been many mediocre and even bad pandai making keris. I am afraid that i cannot agree that a good sense of proportion is a universal skill of ALL keris makers. There are just too many bad keris to be found to back that statement up.

Yes the gonjo is seperate.
Just had a look at it!

Regards, Erik

Thanks all!
 

Haven't been able to check the forum for a few days and see what happened with this post. Wow.

Thanks all. This a post which helps me to learn again.
Great info, interesting opinions etc.

So a great thanks to all of you that contributed so far!

Erik

Hello Ganjawulung,

Thanks for sharing this keris, very very nice.
I have a similar example unfortunately the condition is not so good.
It came from an old Dutch collection but unfortunately was not kept very well. I think it is a very old blade and the kikik is original in my opinion.

Regards, Erik

Eek! Were they using a wire to hold the hilt tight on the blade! :eek:
I would replace that with cloth if it were in my hands. :)

Yes I should change that. I always use old batik cloth myself. It is copperwire which should not do to much harm but I'll change it anyway. Erik

I would be afraid that it would wear into the wood on the inside of the hilt when you twist it on. I don't think it would hurt the blade much.

Hi Erik,

I like this blade and think that the kikik is original indeed. You have a sheat for it?

sajen

Unfortunately this is all there is. Wilah, mendak and ukiran.

ypu should heve a warangka for your keris, a jogja gayaman would be nice, a new mendak also.

Difficult by the ganja wilut to get a old one. A new sheat will be a option.

sajen