Michael, I genuinely like Martin Kerner. Not only is he a thorough gentleman, but he is a very, very good statistician.

Regrettably some of his social and cultural ideas on Jawa and Bali are just a wee bit off to one side.

I've been trying for a very long time to come to terms with Bhatara Guru. His position in the pantheon seems to change from era to era and at the present time, from person to person, depending on who you're talking to. Maybe even from day to day, depending on how a person is feeling on the day.

I think that in terms of Jawa/Bali, I'm about at the position where Bhatara Guru = Bhatara Guru, and I'm not really prepared to debate with anybody whether Bhatara Guru can be equated with any other personage in the mainstream. In my previous post I mentioned the possibilities, but maybe in Jawa, Bhatara Guru was initially created from a melding of ideas and characters, both actual and from the Hindu mainstream. Maybe he really is a unique character who can be associated with mainstream characters, but is not exactly the same as any mainstream character

One of the problems with Balinese togogans, whether keris hilts, or other statues, is that very often the figure will be changed by the artist to suit his own whim, and it can mean exactly what the artist wants it to mean. The standard mainstream forms do not necessarily apply, and maybe a figure that looks like it should be one character, is intended by the artist to be some other character. Some are readily recognisable, but to try to name each and every one can be a real trap for young players. Additionally, not all the forms are necessarily related to the Hindu pantheon, but can be indigenous Balinese characters.

I've currently got about 20 or so Bali handles in a box ready to photograph. When I get a bit of time and a decent day, I'll do the lot and put them up here a couple at a time. I think we might have a bit of fun with some of these.

Alan,
It seems like your description of different opinions on Bhatara Guru is typical of syncretism.
Btw, do you know if Akshobya is/was well-known on Bali too?

Michael

Yes, true, and the syncretic nature of Javanese culture and society is well reported. At a basic level Bali is an extension of Jawa, so it is natural that syncetism should also be an element there, as well.

The Buddhist element in Jawanese society was most prevalent in the period through to around 1000AD, and again in the East Jawa period. I've never come across any references to Akshobya in Bali, but that doesn't mean much, as I have not studied Buddhism in Bali at all.As a prominent point of reference I can say that I have not encountered Akshobya there. On the other hand, Bhatara Guru is hiding behind every corner. There are those who want make of every figure that bears one of his characteristics, a representation of Bhatara Guru--- and if these people can relate Bhatara Guru to the figure, who is to say they are wrong --- insofar as their own belief is concerned?

Thanks Alan,

Maybe it's time for you to tell us more about the hilts you originally posted (Bayu and [Ravana???])?

Michael

Yeah, I'd back Bayu and Rawana.

But how about my relationships question?

Study of this sort of thing is not just about hanging names---either right or wrong---on things.

Nobody interested enough to draw a few connecting lines?

OK, I will give it a try.
Here are the relationships of the hilts according to my present understanding (I look forward to learn some more on this subject):

Hanuman is the son of Bayu, which explains why he is so good at big leaps (like across the sea all the way from India to Lanka).
Another famous son of Bayu is Bhima. In this way Bayu is part of both Ramayana and Mahabharata through his sons.

Ravana was the rakshasa king of Lanka that kidnapped Sita, Rama's wife.
In a way Ravana could be "related" to Shiva as a rakshasa king.

Ganesha is one of Shiva's "indirect" sons.

Bayu is also known as the purifier and frees from misfortunes.
On Bali he is known as Bhatara Bayu. In this local role he is the bringer of health and prosperity as well as a protector against evil (= Ravana). He is also known among mystics as Prabhu Guru Bayu (the Great Spiritual Teacher).
Another famous spiritual teacher is Bhatara Ganesha. He also gives success in undertakings, overcomes obstacles and is the god of wisdom ...

Michael

Yep, Bayu (Vayu) is supposedly Hanuman's father.

Hanuman fought Rawana.

Rawana was king of the raksasas and he lived in Langka.

Langka was originally the summit of Mount Meru, but Bayu broke it off, threw it into the sea, where it became Langka.

Ganesha might have been Siwa's son, from Parvati, but some traditions have him as the son of only Parvati.Michael has mentioned the Maha-bharata;Ganesha wrote the Maha-bharata from the dictation of Vyasa.

We mentioned Agastya too. Whilst the togog might or might not be Agastya, it is worthwhile knowing that Agastya was able to control the raksasas.

All these strange names tie together, and when you know the relationships, the whole thing starts to make a little bit of sense.

I've had time to do photos of some of my Bali togogs, so here's another two for a few guesses.

Silver Boy and Bony Boy.

Who do you reckon these blokes might be?

Hi Alan, love the hilts! Is silver boy Bima? He has the "kuku pancanaka" long thumbnails which I believe are a characteristic of Bima. On bony boy I have no idea.....scary looking dude though!

Yeah, I think a good guess for the silver one is Bima, but I really don't know what the other bloke is supposed to be. There's a whole heap of various nasties in Balinese folk lore, my guess is he's one of those.

Interesting, the 'slot' on boney's belly; a little too deep to be a fold of fat . :confused:

I have seen an ivory togo of a little boy in nearly the same pose .
I think we've all seen this particular example at some point or other; I just can't find a picture of the little fella . :shrug:

Yeah, you're right Rick. Its not a fat fold, its got another ridge inside it, and it curls up a bit at the ends. My guess is that it refers to some feature of the original nasty. Off the top of my head I don't know what this might be, but I'll have a look in a couple of books and see if I can find some character whose belly opens up. Probably one there somewhere.

Here's another fellow for identification . :confused:
What is he holding ?
There is a bit of reflective glass set in his headress .

Polychrome over wood; humble work but I like it . :)

Hi Rick, this guy is holding a similar thing, he's down as Barong or a temple guardian.....looks like it's a torch he's got hold of.

True they both hold similar objects but the aspect of each figure is very different .
The Togo seems to show downcast eyes and a serene appearance as opposed to the aggresive stance and bared fangs of the statue; this is a aspect often given the 'Good Guys' in the Wayang .
I don't think this fellow is a demon . :confused:

This fellow is holding a "gada" (pls spell it - gaw-daw) or "godo". Bima usually used a "gada" as his weapon - beside his deadly "kuku pancanaka" or his long nail. But not every fellow with gada is Bima. Sometimes, demi-god, demi-ape Hanuman, Hanila, Hanggada and also Sugriwa, Subali sometimes use gada as their weapon...

Some "gate guardian" statues, also wears gada...

Rick also i agree with Ganjawulung. I think your hits is Bima with his club used to crash enemy's head.
Usually Bima is a rather angry pankanaka (opposite of his brother Arjuna that is a kind gentleman loved by women)
I put another Bima hit with the same weapon.

.....Although Bima was loved by a demon.........and bore a demon son in Mahabharata :eek:

There is a resemblance but I'm still intrigued by the fangless, peaceful aspect of the togo that I have submitted .
So alike, yet so different . :shrug:

I'm also fascinated by these Bali hilts that are polychrome over some kind of gesso-like material applied to carved wood .

Marcokris shows another example of this type of hilt in the Ligan thread .

Rick

LEAK OR RANGDA?
 

Are these a couple of leak? Rangda?

Hi Ganja, the togog on the left looks like Rangda, holding the corpse of a child :eek: The one on the right looks like it could be Nawa Sari-is he holding a sheaf of rice behind his head?

Two very nice hits indeed. I'm agree with Lennythesmith : one is Navasari, the other is Rangda (or perhaps Rangda's sister). Ganjawulung are the hits from Madura?

I have no clue of this "Gentleman" Bima but the position he is at strikes me strongly as like he indeed is ready to whack somebody with a serious intent :eek:

Marco, Ganja, stunning examples .
I drool . ;) :D

Another Rangda with stolen baby. This hit material is rare. It is a kind of coral like Akar Bahar but is not black but yellow (uli emas).
It's strange that while there are many Rangda hits in Bali, I never saw a hit with the figure of Barong!

Hi Marco, that Rangda is AWESOME :D The coral looks similar to a dark Baltic amber! Any more?? ;)

My goodness! Fascinating material on that hilt Marco. I love it! :)

oh...the ivory one is stunning as well... ;) :)

No Marco, it is from Bali. Wooden hilt material. And this other one below, is made of "balung" (bone). Another motive of Ganesha. I bought it from a "mranggi" (sheath maker) in Batuan, near Ubud, Gianyar...

A ganesh hit like Ganja hit. Another coral hit ( akar bahar)