Bloody hell Robert!
Totally missed this one, what a beauty! I'm drooling on the keyboard!!

You'll have to keep the mrs a little longer now ;)

If memory serves this isn't the first beautiful present she's found you?

Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this.:confused: It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous :eek: but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.:D

Just wondering if my questions are unanswerable, since no one has addressed them. Just to state them again...
How accurately can we date this filigree ball feature that we see on some of these fancier dressed gunongs?
How far back can we date the weapon itself? Can't say i've seen anything that can be dated older than very late 19th century.

i seem to recall reading somewhere that the moro started carrying the gunongs somewhere during the insurrection at the end of the 19c/early 20th when they were forbidden to carry the longer kris and barongs in public. the smaller knives could more easily be hidden yet were still deadly at close quarters.

my humble item, hardened edge is very apparent in vinegar etch.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s..._6Enhancer.jpg

my touristy one: note the pointy luks, thin sheet metal guard, thinner flat x-section blade vs. diamond x-section in the other, no hardened edge or laminations, grip ball rather than the more form-fitting version of the earlier one that fits nicely between the fingers. decorations are incised in the ball, not wirework.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...o/gunong21.jpg

the top one lives on the night stand by my bed justincase. the touristy one is relegated to the closet. ;)

EVIDENTLY THESE KNIVES DO NOT EXHIST :eek: I WENT THRU STONES GLOSSARY AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IT FAILED ME. I COULD NOT FIND IT MENTIONED AS GUNONG OR BADIK NOT EVEN A PICTURE IN THE ENTIRE BOOK UNLESS I MISSED IT. I HAD HOPED TO FIND IT IN STONES AS THAT WOULD HAVE AT LEAST ESTABLISHED IT PRE 1934 WHEN STONES WAS COPYWRITED. I DIDN'T SEE IT IN CATOS BOOK BUT AS IT DEALS SPECIFICALLY WITH MORO SWORDS ITS NOT A SURPRIZE.
I THINK I USED TO CALL WHAT IS TODAY CALLED A GUNONG A BADIK BUT AM NOT SURE. PERHAPS SOMEONE HAS OLDER BOOKS ON PHILIPPINE KNIVES AND SWORDS WHERE THESE DAGGERS ARE PICTURED SO A TIMELINE CAN BE ESTABLISHED.
AFTER WW2 THINGS WENT INTO HIGH GEAR IN THE PHILIPPINES WITH REBUILDING IT WAS A TIME OF GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITYS FOR GAINING WEALTH WERE ON THE RISE. THERE WAS PLENTY OF METAL EASILY AVAILABLE FOR THOSE WHO WORKED IT. SOLDIERS ALL HAD FIGHTING KNIVES SO IT IS LIKELY THE LOCALS WOULD BE LOOKING TO BUY A KNIFE TOO AND MANY MORE WOULD HAVE HAD THE MONEY TO AFFORD ONE. THE SOLDIERS WERE A READY MARKET TOO BUT WERE NOT THE ONLY MARKET. THE TOURISTS CAME A BIT LATER AFTER WW2 AS EVERYONE WAS EITHER REBUILDING OR CATCHING THEIR BREATH AFTER SUCH A TERRIBLE WAR.

I AM PRETTY SURE THE GUNONG WAS AROUND BEFORE WW2 BUT MOST WERE NOT FANCY OR LARGE AND WERE CARRIED CONCELED FOR PROTECTION NOT FOR DISPLAY OR WORK KNIVES. JUST CONJECTURE AS I NO LONGER REMEMBER WHERE I GOT THAT INFORMATION OR IDEA. :shrug:

Kronckew, i like your first example. Looks well constructed. Are the fittings silver? So hard to tell in photos. Certainly a solid piece with some age on it. Again, i'm wondering when certain changes took place such as the more bulbous and pistol shaped hilt. :)

Barry, i'm not at home with my books, but did you check under the name "punal" or "kris punal"?

When she's buying presents like that the only worry is that you might do something to make her stop!

Here is some good information from Federico's site: look at the gunong section.

http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...roweapons.html

To answer your question, David, the bulbous ferrule seems to be a little later, around the 1930s? Hard to pin down exact dates.

YOU ARE RIGHT I USED TO CALL THEM PUNAL. I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING UNDER PUNAL OR KRIS PICTURES OR TEXT. STONE DID GROUP THE KERIS AND MORO KRIS ALL UNDER KRIS IN HIS BOOK BUT NO GUNONGS PICTURED. I AM SURPRIZED.

another anecdotal evidence, on how the gunongs looked like in the 1920s and earlier (taken from antiques magazine, march 1926) ...

Thanks Lorenz. I also have a copy of this magazine and the picture supports Federico's analysis.

The bulbous midsection of the hilt and the bulbous pistol grip is a later, 1930s development.

Now the question is were they earlier than 1900? I am sure that some form was present but early gunongs were placed out of site as an emergency piece or often worn in the back as a back up weapon. Much later did they get large, showy, and worn more prominantly.

thanks too, jose. i'm intrigued too on how the bulbous feature came about ...

I could be wrong but on the picture above from antiques magazine, march 1926 that Lorenz posted the second dagger from the left looks to already have the bulbous midsection of the hilt. This is the best that I could do to show it. Maybe someone that has a better copy of the original picture could take a closer look to help decide whether or not this is correct.


Robert

hard to tell, definitely not aluminum, tarnish is black as i'd expect from silver. might be low grade Ag. doesn't look like the nickel 'silver' on some of my other knives.

the lower one's fittings appear to be tinned brass.

When I talk of bulbous I am referring to the large bulbous midsection like the large pistol grip of the later pieces. My silver one below is a smaller one and I believe it comes from the late 1910s to early 1920s.

By large and bulbous I am referring to this which I believe to be from the 1930s (also notice the bulbous pistol grip and the okir on the scabbard).

here's another example (from steve) of a gunong where the 'bulb' is just starting to 'grow' ...

Robert,
Sorry to take so long to reply. Although I love the gunong, and have quite a few, I'm no scholar. I've loved reading the posts here, and have learned a lot. I have a feeling, based on my gut, and not knowledge, that your piece is post-WWII. But it's a lovely, finely crafted piece, made with traditional bladesmithing methods. Quite a fine blade! Congratulations!

Steve