Just relised it shows a little Tuareg influence, just a little. :D

Mark...

Hello all!

I found some Tuareg silver jewlery with a similer 'X' motif on it I will post links when I find it again, but chould this really be Tuareg? I never saw a any curved Tuareg weapons so I am very confuesed. :confused: I really hope someone out there in forum land is sure where yhis came from, this is driving me crazy! :D

Mayday Mayday this thread is going down like a lead rake!

Mark...

A Link to a similer dagger.

http://www.natashascafe.com/html/tknives1.html

Mark...

Chould it be Tuareg, Malian, or Mauritanian?

I will not let this thread die easily. :D

Mark...

Hi All!

Found a link on Oriental-Arms with a tokouba with a similer pattern on it's hilt.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=606

Mark...

Hi Mark, while I cannot contribute any further to this thread, I just want to point out that one of the many fascinating things about ethnographic weapons is that some examples are hard to pin to a particular geographic region. I would guess everyone of us has in his/her possession at least one dagger that is hard to classify.
Right now it is obvious noone here can help you identify the origin of this dagger, but maybe later on some information will surface. What I like most about geographic edged weapons is that each is pretty much unique, and unlike bayonets for example, there is no textbook with patterns and models to tell you exactly where and when a certain piece was produced.

Hello TVV!

As iratating as it is trying to find out where this dagger came from, I will admit that because of it I learned more about the tuaregs, The Mali Empire, West Africa, and Mansa Musa. As Ali ibn Abi-Talib said "There is no whealth like knoledge, no poverty like ignorance" Also the mystery of this dagger makes it all the more facentating, one day I will find out where this dagger is from. As I find more evidence of this dagger I will post it, identifying this dagger has become my latest 'Crusade'! :D

Mark...

New evidence of Tuareg Origen!!!!!
 

Hello All!

I spent most of today looking for more things about this dagger, I found it. I now feel beyond a resonable doubt that it has a Tuareg origen. So far I have seen a Takouba and a Telek with the exact same pattern of the "X" and line pattern. I have posted the takouba link before but heres the Telek link. I have been using Oriental-Arms as a main resource for comparisons. This chould mean that the Tuareg did/do use jambiyas. :)

Mark...

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1359

and a limk to an old thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000031.html

Here is an old thread I found the first arm dagger shown shows a similer pattern, perhaps it's origen is Egypt. Just thrownig ideas into the pool.

Mark...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Sudan

Hello All!

On page 96 figure 56C in the book "Islamic Weapons Maghreb to Moghul" is a dagger that is identified as Palestinian and bers a resemblance some what to my dagger. I still feal North African though.

Mark...

Mark, I admire your spirit not accepting orthodoxy or apathy your research will pay off in time. Tim

Hello Tim!

Thank you for the compliment. I am of Russian/Cossack decent, my grandfather says thats why I am stubborn and determined! :D I will continue to place this to a place and post here as I do.

Mark...

INMHO to Aurangzeb
 

In admiration to your persuasiveness in this quest for truth here is my humble opinion for what is worth:
It clearly stands out as a crude copy of a Jambyia. That being given and the similarity with the craftsmanship of the solid brass grip "Telek" the Touareg version of the "arm dagger" and the African blades, I would say its belongs to the Touareg or at least to an Islamic black tribe of the Sub-Sahara.
I looked also at the Tirri's book but I would always be careful when considering him for the final verdict. If to consider his book take a look rather at page 54 (# 30) and 56 (# 32A) on the Touareg section instead of the so called Palestinian dagger.

Also the option of a simple "souvenir market" with no blue blood is a solid posibility :( .

Hello Radu!

You have a point about Tuareg or sub-Saharen africa. I am almost definatly sure it is not tourest, the blade is nice, thick, and sharp and relativly well reforged from a file and seems as a using piece. The grip is the crudest part of it.

Mark...

P.S.-Just bought a nice kindjal off Therion-Arms and will post this less "mysterious" dagger soon.

Chould it be from the Comoros Islands? The reason for my continuous posting is mainly to use this thread to keep trck of ideas and theoys on this Knife due to my short term memory loss problem. Also is this idea possible or just a crazy idea.

Mark...

Will someone tell me if my idea is possible or just crazy? :)

Sudan???? I found a very similer dagger on a website but I do not know if I can post a link to a item that is for sale.

Mark...

Palestinian dagger
 

Gentlemen

Sorry to come in so late, but I am afraid it is indeed a Palestinian dagger coming from the Northern parts of Israel / Palestine or south Syria. It may be mix of several daggers common to the area.

Generally the blades in daggers from the region covering Palestine, Israel, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are divided into two main categories:

The Shyibria type with the re-curving blade (few examples shown above) which is common to the southern parts of Israel, to Jordan and to the Sinai peninsula

The Khanjar type, with the single curved blade, common to the northern parts of this region: North of Israel, South of Syria and Lebanon.

In both categories the handle will be of the standard “I” shaped, but made of whatever possible material found: wood, horn, bone, brass or any other metal, and the pommel in a variety of shapes: round, half round, triangular, slightly square and whatever the local maker had in mind when he produced the dagger.

A week ago, I have noticed in a small Israeli forum on Ethnographic weapons ( Unfortunately in Hebrew) a thread on this dagger:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos/extra/19/000219.jpg


http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos/extra/18/000218.jpg

It was collected in the 1973 war between Israel and Syria in a small village (Jubata el Hasheb, now in the international boundaries of Syria). The blade is in a shameful condition, the scabbard is a later scabbard of a Magdali Khanjar (this village is only 7 miles north of Magdal Shams, were the Magdali daggers were made), but the brass handle has a sticking similarity to the one posted above.

Hope this resolves the mystery

(Thanks to Mr. I. Meyuchas, who collected this dagger and was kind enough to allow me to post it here)

Hello Artzi!

better late than never! :D Thank you so much for resolving this mystery. I can't thank you enough.

Mark...

Almost forgot is this a khanjar of jambiya, or are they the same thing?

Mark...