Tangguh Segaluh and the Coteng "Cenok" blade.

Paul de Souza · 10th December 2016, 03:19 AM

This follows on from the Bali keris discussion I started a few days ago.

One reason why I bought the keris was a striking similarity of the blade to the cenok blades of North Malayan Coteng. Both have a relatively thin and long ganja, a wide gandik with no sogokan and very shallow waves. Now that the Balinese blade has been identified as Tangguh Segaluh, I wonder if the cenok is a variation of the Segaluh...like a memory of the first keris introduced to Singora and Patani and replicated in the cenok thereafter. Would the cenok be considered a "segaluh" blade?

I am not sure if Majapahit extended their influence all the way up to Patani/Singora since Patani at most times was under the influence of the Siamese. But it would be interesting to discuss this.

Opinions please.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2016, 06:21 AM

The middle blade does look a bit Segaluhish, but I feel that I'd be reluctant to call it Segaluh. The typical Segaluh blade has a very long distance from the center of the pesi to the outside edge of the gandhik, its not just long, its super long.

The middle blade in your line-up does have a boto rubuh blumbangan, but the distance is not sufficiently great to give it as Segaluh, its more like one of the Pajajaran forms. Segaluh and Pajajaran are both related, both similar, its just that the Segaluh has that super long distance. Segaluh was probably originally given as Si Galuh, a keris from the old West Jawa kingdom of Galuh.

I think that where a blade from outside Jawa has a form that echoes a Javanese form, we can probably say that the original pattern did come from Jawa.

The Nagarakertagama lists about 100 political entities that rendered tribute to Majapahit, but whether or not these places were under Mojo control to any degree is pretty debateable. More likely they were just paying good will tribute --- read "respect", think of Mafia Protection Money:- give respect, respect shown by items of value, the Big Boys stay away. Keris were commonly given as gifts by Javanese kings, and others, but the Javanese givers did not give the Javanese knowledge or context along with the keris, so these "outsiders" developed their own cultural framework for the keris. This is the reason why many Javanese people consider keris from outside Jawa/Bali as "keris-like", not real keris at all.

10th December 2016, 03:19 AM	#1
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 65	Tangguh Segaluh and the Coteng "Cenok" blade. This follows on from the Bali keris discussion I started a few days ago. One reason why I bought the keris was a striking similarity of the blade to the cenok blades of North Malayan Coteng. Both have a relatively thin and long ganja, a wide gandik with no sogokan and very shallow waves. Now that the Balinese blade has been identified as Tangguh Segaluh, I wonder if the cenok is a variation of the Segaluh...like a memory of the first keris introduced to Singora and Patani and replicated in the cenok thereafter. Would the cenok be considered a "segaluh" blade? I am not sure if Majapahit extended their influence all the way up to Patani/Singora since Patani at most times was under the influence of the Siamese. But it would be interesting to discuss this. Opinions please. Attached Images

10th December 2016, 06:21 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	The middle blade does look a bit Segaluhish, but I feel that I'd be reluctant to call it Segaluh. The typical Segaluh blade has a very long distance from the center of the pesi to the outside edge of the gandhik, its not just long, its super long. The middle blade in your line-up does have a boto rubuh blumbangan, but the distance is not sufficiently great to give it as Segaluh, its more like one of the Pajajaran forms. Segaluh and Pajajaran are both related, both similar, its just that the Segaluh has that super long distance. Segaluh was probably originally given as Si Galuh, a keris from the old West Jawa kingdom of Galuh. I think that where a blade from outside Jawa has a form that echoes a Javanese form, we can probably say that the original pattern did come from Jawa. The Nagarakertagama lists about 100 political entities that rendered tribute to Majapahit, but whether or not these places were under Mojo control to any degree is pretty debateable. More likely they were just paying good will tribute --- read "respect", think of Mafia Protection Money:- give respect, respect shown by items of value, the Big Boys stay away. Keris were commonly given as gifts by Javanese kings, and others, but the Javanese givers did not give the Javanese knowledge or context along with the keris, so these "outsiders" developed their own cultural framework for the keris. This is the reason why many Javanese people consider keris from outside Jawa/Bali as "keris-like", not real keris at all.