Korean or Khmer sword.

rumpel9 · 1st February 2019, 02:48 PM

Hello, everyone.
Not so long ago, I bought an Asian sword. Total length is 85 cm, blade is 56 cm. The blade seems for me older than the handle. At first I thught that this is Korean sword. But later I began to doubt. I think that this is the later Khmer sword. It would be very interesting to know your opinion about this sword.

ariel · 1st February 2019, 07:32 PM

IMHO, this is a typical SE Asian Dha ( OK, purists: Daab:-)

There are limited data on Korean swords of Joseon dynasty, but certain simple points do apply.
Korean Geom was an awfully spartan and down-to-earth relative of its Japanese counterpart,- Katana. Both had blades attached to the handles with a "rivet", only in Japanese version it was removable ( mekugi), whereas in Korea it was dead-set. Here there is no " rivet" at all: likely use of a mastique as the blade holder. Korean swords had very little or no embellishments to the point of often having bare wood handles. This one has profuse silver foil with typical SE Asian motives.
Blade geometry is not Japanese or Korean ( wide fuller reminds me of a reworked European????)
Finally, rattan wrapping is neither Japanese nor Korean feature: SE Asia at her purest, from Assam to Philippines.

rumpel9 · 1st February 2019, 08:14 PM

Ariel, Dha with blant end usually found among the kachin people. But their swords are very simple, they do not decorate them. And Kachin swords have no guards. And here there is a large guard about 9 cm in diameter.
In addition to this, the motifs of the metal part of the handle have never met me on any dha. The motifs of this decor seem to me Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodian.
The shape of this sword is most similar to Montagnard which is found in Laos, Thailand and Vietnam (see on pic.)

Ren Ren · 1st February 2019, 09:32 PM

This is definitely not Korea. The island part of Southeast Asia can also be excluded.
You are right about the old blade. In Indochina, this archaic form is sometimes found in Thailand. But the metal parts of the hilt are not typical for Thai masters. In my opinion, the high-quality work on silver and the complex composition of the plot point to the works of Vietnamese masters from Hue or Hanoi. Perhaps these silver pieces used to be part of another object, and later became parts of a sword hilt.

ariel · 1st February 2019, 11:48 PM

Agree with both of you: SE Asia, and that was exactly what I said. So all three of us are on the same page. The “islands” were mentioned simply due to the use of rattan, but obviously they are out of the equation.

Regretfully, so is Korea: those are rarer than hens teeth.

mariusgmioc · 2nd February 2019, 02:42 PM

After spending about one year in Korea and visiting most of their museums, I can say with a sufficient level of certainty this is NOT a Korean sword, but a SE Asian Dha. Where exactly is it from, I don't know.

rumpel9 · 2nd February 2019, 02:53 PM

Given all this, I believe that this sword belongs to southern Indo-China - Laos / Vietnam / Cambodia. But I was confused by the end of the blade. I saw the swords of this region, mostly Vietnamese, but I never met the end of the blade without an edge.

Battara · 2nd February 2019, 06:31 PM

Some daab of the Indo-China peninsula do have guards on them, perhaps due to early Japanese contacts.

Ren Ren · 2nd February 2019, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumpel9

But I was confused by the end of the blade.

Swords from Thailand

Ren Ren · 2nd February 2019, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Some daab of the Indo-China peninsula do have guards on them, perhaps due to early Japanese contacts.

Guards on swords of the Indo-China peninsula have been since the Bronze Age.

kahnjar1 · 2nd February 2019, 09:46 PM

I have always understood that Dha with the ring guard come from Cambodia or Laos and are usually described as "Khmer". Check here for a comprehensive cover of Dha types. Click on "Sword Index" and on individual pics. Most have a description http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/
Also attached pics of 3 "guarded" Dha I once owned. They were described as Khmer.
Stu

Sajen · 2nd February 2019, 09:54 PM

Hello Rumpel9,

like the others I am convinced that it's not Korean also when I don't know something about Korean swords but I think to know what you have there, it's a sword from the Dai poeple (so they get called in Yuan) or Tai Lue (so they get called in Laos), think that your sword is from the Lao side, 19th century. Interesting sword for sure but need a lot of work, the blade is in a bad condition. Nice Daab!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 2nd February 2019, 09:59 PM

See here for rounded tip and guard by dha/daab/dao: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=daab

Battara · 3rd February 2019, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Guards on swords of the Indo-China peninsula have been since the Bronze Age.

I stand corrected, Ren Ren, thank you.

kronckew · 3rd February 2019, 10:25 AM

According to a Thai swordsman friend of mine, the first DHA with guard and silver on there is Laos daab sword 19thc not cambodian, Loas bordering Yunnan dai or Tai lue, it's more laos looking to me though and the blade shape is Loas for sure.

Ian · 4th February 2019, 01:39 PM

I must agree with Wayne on the identification of the original subject of this thread. This is a Lao daab, very likely 19th C, with typical Lao repoussed silver work. It likely comes from the "Golden Triangle" area of northern Thailand, Laos, and Yunnan occupied by Tai, Dai, and ethnically related groups. I don't see anything to suggest Khmer influence.

Ian

1st February 2019, 02:48 PM	#1
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Korean or Khmer sword. Hello, everyone. Not so long ago, I bought an Asian sword. Total length is 85 cm, blade is 56 cm. The blade seems for me older than the handle. At first I thught that this is Korean sword. But later I began to doubt. I think that this is the later Khmer sword. It would be very interesting to know your opinion about this sword. Attached Images

1st February 2019, 08:14 PM	#3
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Ariel, Dha with blant end usually found among the kachin people. But their swords are very simple, they do not decorate them. And Kachin swords have no guards. And here there is a large guard about 9 cm in diameter. In addition to this, the motifs of the metal part of the handle have never met me on any dha. The motifs of this decor seem to me Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodian. The shape of this sword is most similar to Montagnard which is found in Laos, Thailand and Vietnam (see on pic.) Attached Images

2nd February 2019, 09:46 PM	#11
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	I have always understood that Dha with the ring guard come from Cambodia or Laos and are usually described as "Khmer". Check here for a comprehensive cover of Dha types. Click on "Sword Index" and on individual pics. Most have a description http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/ Also attached pics of 3 "guarded" Dha I once owned. They were described as Khmer. Stu Attached Images Last edited by kahnjar1; 2nd February 2019 at 10:01 PM.

1st February 2019, 07:32 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	IMHO, this is a typical SE Asian Dha ( OK, purists: Daab:-) There are limited data on Korean swords of Joseon dynasty, but certain simple points do apply. Korean Geom was an awfully spartan and down-to-earth relative of its Japanese counterpart,- Katana. Both had blades attached to the handles with a "rivet", only in Japanese version it was removable ( mekugi), whereas in Korea it was dead-set. Here there is no " rivet" at all: likely use of a mastique as the blade holder. Korean swords had very little or no embellishments to the point of often having bare wood handles. This one has profuse silver foil with typical SE Asian motives. Blade geometry is not Japanese or Korean ( wide fuller reminds me of a reworked European????) Finally, rattan wrapping is neither Japanese nor Korean feature: SE Asia at her purest, from Assam to Philippines.

1st February 2019, 09:32 PM	#4
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	This is definitely not Korea. The island part of Southeast Asia can also be excluded. You are right about the old blade. In Indochina, this archaic form is sometimes found in Thailand. But the metal parts of the hilt are not typical for Thai masters. In my opinion, the high-quality work on silver and the complex composition of the plot point to the works of Vietnamese masters from Hue or Hanoi. Perhaps these silver pieces used to be part of another object, and later became parts of a sword hilt.

1st February 2019, 11:48 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with both of you: SE Asia, and that was exactly what I said. So all three of us are on the same page. The “islands” were mentioned simply due to the use of rattan, but obviously they are out of the equation. Regretfully, so is Korea: those are rarer than hens teeth.

2nd February 2019, 02:42 PM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	After spending about one year in Korea and visiting most of their museums, I can say with a sufficient level of certainty this is NOT a Korean sword, but a SE Asian Dha. Where exactly is it from, I don't know.

2nd February 2019, 02:53 PM	#7
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Given all this, I believe that this sword belongs to southern Indo-China - Laos / Vietnam / Cambodia. But I was confused by the end of the blade. I saw the swords of this region, mostly Vietnamese, but I never met the end of the blade without an edge.

2nd February 2019, 06:31 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Some daab of the Indo-China peninsula do have guards on them, perhaps due to early Japanese contacts.

2nd February 2019, 09:54 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Hello Rumpel9, like the others I am convinced that it's not Korean also when I don't know something about Korean swords but I think to know what you have there, it's a sword from the Dai poeple (so they get called in Yuan) or Tai Lue (so they get called in Laos), think that your sword is from the Lao side, 19th century. Interesting sword for sure but need a lot of work, the blade is in a bad condition. Nice Daab! Regards, Detlef

2nd February 2019, 09:59 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	See here for rounded tip and guard by dha/daab/dao: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=daab

3rd February 2019, 10:25 AM	#15
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,185	According to a Thai swordsman friend of mine, the first DHA with guard and silver on there is Laos daab sword 19thc not cambodian, Loas bordering Yunnan dai or Tai lue, it's more laos looking to me though and the blade shape is Loas for sure.

4th February 2019, 01:39 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	I must agree with Wayne on the identification of the original subject of this thread. This is a Lao daab, very likely 19th C, with typical Lao repoussed silver work. It likely comes from the "Golden Triangle" area of northern Thailand, Laos, and Yunnan occupied by Tai, Dai, and ethnically related groups. I don't see anything to suggest Khmer influence. Ian