Bebondolan VS Nunggak Semi: Which is older?

Neo · 15th January 2011, 02:40 PM

The information I gather so far indicate that ancient (sepuh - Majapahit or before) hilt types are predominantly in the figural shapes. Well, at least the surviving ones.

Does this mean that simple, non-figural types similar to Nunggak Semi existed only after Demak or Mataram?

How about Bali's Bebondolan? As Bali keris culture is relatively separate from Java's post-Islamic development, is it possible that some sort of simple, non-figural type that is precursor to Nunggak Semi existed in the past? Could Bebondolan be the early version of Nunggak Semi?

On the other hand, are there indications that Bebondolan is the Balinese copy of Nunggak Semi - that Nunggak Semi is actually older?

PenangsangII · 15th January 2011, 03:25 PM

i believe both nunggak semi and bebondolan were stylized from the old figural hilts types. Both could have existed in more or less the same era though the reason behind it could be different.

IMHO bebondolan hilts was created for more practical reasons. It is easier to make compared to figural ones, and of course less time consuming if you are to arm an army.

Nunggak semi is said to be created to islamized the figural keris hilts

A. G. Maisey · 17th January 2011, 03:36 AM

A question of this nature becomes a matter of opinion, rather than something that can be positively determined one way or the other.

My opinion is that planar hilts existed prior to the influence of Islam on hilt design. The Islamic influence was the incorporation of cecekan.

Planar hilts can be found in Javanese weapons other than keris, and the Balinese forms of planar hilt certainly owe nothing to any Islamic input.

Neo · 17th January 2011, 06:41 AM

Opinions from those with more experience than me are good enough; I've got what I needed. Thank you for the answers, Penangsang II and Mr. Maisey.

15th January 2011, 02:40 PM	#1
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Bebondolan VS Nunggak Semi: Which is older? The information I gather so far indicate that ancient (sepuh - Majapahit or before) hilt types are predominantly in the figural shapes. Well, at least the surviving ones. Does this mean that simple, non-figural types similar to Nunggak Semi existed only after Demak or Mataram? How about Bali's Bebondolan? As Bali keris culture is relatively separate from Java's post-Islamic development, is it possible that some sort of simple, non-figural type that is precursor to Nunggak Semi existed in the past? Could Bebondolan be the early version of Nunggak Semi? On the other hand, are there indications that Bebondolan is the Balinese copy of Nunggak Semi - that Nunggak Semi is actually older?

15th January 2011, 03:25 PM	#2
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	i believe both nunggak semi and bebondolan were stylized from the old figural hilts types. Both could have existed in more or less the same era though the reason behind it could be different. IMHO bebondolan hilts was created for more practical reasons. It is easier to make compared to figural ones, and of course less time consuming if you are to arm an army. Nunggak semi is said to be created to islamized the figural keris hilts

17th January 2011, 03:36 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	A question of this nature becomes a matter of opinion, rather than something that can be positively determined one way or the other. My opinion is that planar hilts existed prior to the influence of Islam on hilt design. The Islamic influence was the incorporation of cecekan. Planar hilts can be found in Javanese weapons other than keris, and the Balinese forms of planar hilt certainly owe nothing to any Islamic input.

17th January 2011, 06:41 AM	#4
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Opinions from those with more experience than me are good enough; I've got what I needed. Thank you for the answers, Penangsang II and Mr. Maisey.