Dagger from Crete (?) - for comment +translation plea

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hello,
I would appreciate any comments - this kind of daggers was not/is not my field.

The dagger is 57 cms long now (the tip was broken and I adjusted it). The pictures are from the middle of restoring process, the blede was extremly rusty (I also used tanin). The blade is made of laminated steel, nicely springy.

I think it comes from Crtete, but I did not see so long Crete knife till now (but I do not have literature about such weapons).

Any idea about the text on the blade ?
Thanks,
Martin

[Martin Lubojacky]

just addtinional picture

[Martin Lubojacky]

addtitional info:

Original length could be cca 63 cms, collar on the blade is made of lead

[ariel]

Martin,
Cretan daggers that I know always have a specific engraved ornament ( large, convoluted, floral) and are signed in Greek. This one has neither. It seems to me that there is a date, 1301(????), that would not be consistent with the already independent Greece. Also, it is yataghan-ish.
I would guess it is a Turkish or Balkan Muslim yataghan bichaq.
Having cleaned it up, you might consider stopping with further restoration efforts. IMHO.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you for your standpoint Ariel. Some times it is really better to leave some parts unrestored - in a state, as it was found. I somehow still cannot decide (re the handle).

As far as the origin is concerned, the seller told me it was allegedly from Crete ... Autonomous Cretan state was founded in 1898, so it may be written in "osmanli" ?? I think, that, except of what you said, there could also be two signs, which could spek for Crete - the shape of handle (shape of the pommel + shape of the lead collar) and (I feel it so) the shape of the blade.

But you are right - the engraving is "yataganish" ......

[Rashka Vatnik]

Form of the blade is not Cretan.

[Emanuel]

Interesting.

The scracthes on the blade a re very crude imitation of the usual yataghan inscriptions. The blade profile is very similar to the Ahmed Tekelu yataghans
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2072

The punch work on the spine is similar to what is seen on Laz bicagi / Black Sea Yataghan. Considering the population exchanges with Cretan populations and the Pontic region, this might explain the Cretan connection.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you Emanuel, Rashka and Ariel for your comments.

Islamic 1301 is equal 1884 Gregorian. That time Crete was under the Ottoman Empiry (I apologize if I am wrong). I think that determinant for the place of use is the style of the handle (more or less generally). Could it be, that it was produced by Turkish artisan in Crete ? (I think there is written Ali on the blade, but this still nobody confirmed ...)
Regards,
Martin

[ariel]

Obviously, it was produced by a Muslim artisan.
Whether his workshop was located in Izmir, Sarajevo or Chania cannot be determined.
But when we are talking about Cretan knives, we mean a very different thing. Surely, it was influenced by the Ottoman progenitor, but Christian Cretan Greeks modified it extensively and created their own very specific style. And I cannot see any evidence of it in your example.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Maybe the shape of the handle and the collar ? I spent 3 years in Turkey and I did not see asuch handle here, except one in Izmir

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

just addtinional picture

Salaams Martin Lubojacky It appears to say.. Ali Hussain...and then the date...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you Ibrahim al Balooshi

[eftihis]

It is definitely a cretan dagger of late manufacture...
I have 2 comments. First the unnecessary length (counter-productive!) for a knife, it is clearly a "status statment". Like the very long "zybek" yataghans, and a sign of late manufacture.
Second, it is interesting that cretan daggers, by 1800 developed a distinctive shape. This development corresponds with the development of the cretan muslim identity. The Cretans that became muslims created a community that although spoke greek, they were neither Greeks nor Turks! After the Greek revolution of 1821, the cretan muslims started to became more and more "turks", and in my opinion this is reflectεd in this dagger, that looks more "turkish" than cretan daggers of previous decades.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Eftihis,

Thank you very much for interesting information

Best regards,
Martin

[ariel]

Eftihis,
What specific features make you believe it's Cretan origin?

[eftihis]

Ariel mainly is the shape of the handle as you see it in this photo

[eftihis]

But have in mind that cretan artisans made various types of blades. These 4 are from the same artisan.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I just consulted with expert on osmanlı writing. He said there was written "Osman Han" (which is the name) on the blade ...
Regards,
Martin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Dear Ibrahiim,

I just consulted with expert on osmanlı writing. He said there was written "Osman Han" (which is the name) on the blade ...
Regards,
Martin

Salaams Martin Lubojacky... It is arabic and its says Ali Hassan or ali Hussain and it is dated ...Under the date it says sennah or year and above that line is the date 1301.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you once more Ibrahiim al Balooshi