Proof mark questions - 10ga Clabrough SxS

[Bill M]

Trying to better understand these marks. Also, any idea about the chokes?

I believe the gun to be a Model 1 J C Clabrough "Duck and Quail" made about 1893.

[Pukka Bundook]

Hello Bill,

Been away from here for a while.
(Detached retina)

The marks forward of the barrel flats are provisional proof marks.

The crossed scepteres and such are the Birmingham proof and view marks of the type used between 1813 and 1904.
these proof marks are for black powder.

the 10 in the diamond is the nominal bore, (10-bore)

can't see the marks at the breech-end of flats very well, but it appears to be an 11 on the right barrel, and 11 over 1 on the left.

this denotes the actual bore, and I can't remeber these actual measurements off the top of my head,

but if one barrel is marked 11, it is a little tighter bore than if marked 11 over "1" which is somewhere between 10 and eleven-bore .

here's a quick example of how it works in 12 gauge;

these are all 12-gauge or 12-bore.
marked 13, bore diameter would be .710"
" 13 over 1 " " " .719"
" 12 " " " .729"
" 12 over 1 " " " .740"

So, same applies to a ten-gauge, but I don't remember the actual measurements....Sorry!

I don't see anything that says how much choke, which is normal.
Choke can only really be reckoned by measuring the bore And the constriction at muzzle.
(As in, full-choke is normally .0040" (40 thou) but to know if you have .0040"
constriction, you need to know the bore size before the choke.)
A gunsmith will tell you if he runs his gauges down the barrel.

Very nice looking barrels!

Richard.

[Anandalal N.]

Hi Richard,

Good to see you back. Hope the retina issue is now OK.

Best,

Anan.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Trying to better understand these marks. Also, any idea about the chokes?

I believe the gun to be a Model 1 J C Clabrough "Duck and Quail" made about 1893.

Very nice gun. Some information on Clabrough from list of Birmingham Gunmakers:
Joseph Clabrough in 1868 listed as at 5 New Buildings,Price Street, Birmingham.
Also 1885-1900 at 60 Aston Road.
Clabrough Bros 1872-1882 at 7 1/2 Saint Marys Row
J.P Clabrough & Johnstone 1894-1900 at same address.

You make comment that you think this is a Model 1. IF there is a "1" on the top rib at breech, then certainly this is No 1 of a matched pair. I also note that there is a No 1 on the barrel flats together with the proof marks.

A challenge would be to locate No 2!!!!!!!!

Regards Stuart

[Pukka Bundook]

Anandalal,

Thank you for the good wishes,...it is getting better!

Re. # 1 of a pair, if so it should also have a #1 on the action breech between the fences.

Richard.

[Matchlock]

It's so good to have you back again here, Richard!

Hope your eyes are much better now.

Best wishes,

Michael

[Pukka Bundook]

Hello Michael!

Good to be back!
Can't see anything to speak of yet, but it's healing up and should be in "working order" in due course.

Will look and see what you have been up to whilst I was away!
Monitor in small doses seems to be required as yet.

Best wishes,

Richard.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Trying to better understand these marks. Also, any idea about the chokes?

I believe the gun to be a Model 1 J C Clabrough "Duck and Quail" made about 1893.

Hi again Bill, I did not have this information to hand when I commented re the possibility that this gun could be #1 of a pair.
From the Official Proof Tables of the Birmingham Proof House
10C in diamond = Chambered for 10g shotshell, usually 2 3/4" to 3" chamber length.
Bore diam of 10g is .775 of an inch
11/1 (The choke) denotes .763 of an inch, at time of definative proof, which may or may not be what the choke actually is now, depending on how much use the gun has had since new.
Can you post a pic of the address detail on the rib, and lock please.
As I hope you are aware, this gun is NOT proved for modern nitro powder, so would be not to be safe to shoot unless you are loading Blackpowder.
Regards Stuart