Ottoman Court Dagger with Strange(?) Blade

ALEX · 7th February 2010, 01:55 PM

This is fairly typical Ottoman dagger with characteristic walrus handle and silver gilt scabbard (the tip bud is missing). The blades on those are often wootz or sham, but this one is quite unusual. It fits the handle at the base, and the slot on it matches the blade width with no gaps, but I doubt it's original blade, based on the pattern (it just does not look Ottoman to me, and inferior to the rest of the dagger), plus it's slightly shorter than the scabbard. Any opinions on origin of the blade and association to related fittings; and can it be considered pattern weld/mechanical pattern? Many thanks.

CharlesS · 7th February 2010, 02:36 PM

Nice piece Alex! I especially like the way the hilt fits into the scabbard, very unique.

I bet we know someone that could make a lovely monster head for the scabbard tip.

RSWORD · 7th February 2010, 03:50 PM

The blade exhibits a random, very open pattern that doesn't seem too deliberate. It reminds me of similar patterns sometimes found on Indian and Moro blades. My guess is that it is folded steel, maybe from scrap iron and probably was never intended to be etched. I bet it was originally polished bright. Perhaps made as a gift to some dignitary. Why use up good wootz if you can make the dress real flashy and then utilize some scrap material to forge a blade, polish it up bright(after all European blades are that way) and present it as a gift.

ward · 7th February 2010, 04:07 PM

It is just a layered up blade that was never meant to be etched.

ALEX · 7th February 2010, 04:10 PM

Thanks, Charles. The final will eventually come:-)
Very nice suggestion, Rick. As you pointed out, if it was made as European "corporate gift":-) the blade did not have to be wootz as it'd be polished bright, so I 100% agree with you.
The blade came heavily patinated, and was cleaned, polished and etched... the later will need to be reversed I am afraid:-)
Thanks guys!
---
... Thanks Ward. I'll repolish the blade, will certainly look better.

eftihis · 7th February 2010, 04:57 PM

Hi, i agree with above opinions about the blade, and it doesnt necessary have to be wootz for a dagger to be beautifull.
Regarding the scabbard finial a "dragon head" will not be the best addition. It should better be something similar with the scabbard endings bellow.

ALEX · 7th February 2010, 05:05 PM

Eftihis, You are right. The "dragon" tip relates more with Greek/Balkan scabbards. The "rose" or "bud" shaped final will be more appropriate on this one. Thanks!
and you're right about wootz, but it would've been nice bonus:-)

ALEX · 19th June 2011, 08:34 PM

it's summer time... so the "bud" has bloomed:-)

Battara · 19th June 2011, 10:48 PM

Nice bud - where did you get it?

ALEX · 20th June 2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Nice bud - where did you get it?

It's a new brass-cast, fitted and soldered to the tip, then re-engraved and slightly gold-plated.,

...the second restoration - the same bud but silver-plated finish

7th February 2010, 01:55 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ottoman Court Dagger with Strange(?) Blade This is fairly typical Ottoman dagger with characteristic walrus handle and silver gilt scabbard (the tip bud is missing). The blades on those are often wootz or sham, but this one is quite unusual. It fits the handle at the base, and the slot on it matches the blade width with no gaps, but I doubt it's original blade, based on the pattern (it just does not look Ottoman to me, and inferior to the rest of the dagger), plus it's slightly shorter than the scabbard. Any opinions on origin of the blade and association to related fittings; and can it be considered pattern weld/mechanical pattern? Many thanks. Attached Images

7th February 2010, 04:57 PM	#6
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Hi, i agree with above opinions about the blade, and it doesnt necessary have to be wootz for a dagger to be beautifull. Regarding the scabbard finial a "dragon head" will not be the best addition. It should better be something similar with the scabbard endings bellow. Attached Images

19th June 2011, 08:34 PM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	it's summer time... so the "bud" has bloomed:-) Attached Images

7th February 2010, 02:36 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Nice piece Alex! I especially like the way the hilt fits into the scabbard, very unique. I bet we know someone that could make a lovely monster head for the scabbard tip.

7th February 2010, 03:50 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	The blade exhibits a random, very open pattern that doesn't seem too deliberate. It reminds me of similar patterns sometimes found on Indian and Moro blades. My guess is that it is folded steel, maybe from scrap iron and probably was never intended to be etched. I bet it was originally polished bright. Perhaps made as a gift to some dignitary. Why use up good wootz if you can make the dress real flashy and then utilize some scrap material to forge a blade, polish it up bright(after all European blades are that way) and present it as a gift.

7th February 2010, 04:07 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It is just a layered up blade that was never meant to be etched.

7th February 2010, 04:10 PM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Thanks, Charles. The final will eventually come:-) Very nice suggestion, Rick. As you pointed out, if it was made as European "corporate gift":-) the blade did not have to be wootz as it'd be polished bright, so I 100% agree with you. The blade came heavily patinated, and was cleaned, polished and etched... the later will need to be reversed I am afraid:-) Thanks guys! --- ... Thanks Ward. I'll repolish the blade, will certainly look better.

7th February 2010, 05:05 PM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Eftihis, You are right. The "dragon" tip relates more with Greek/Balkan scabbards. The "rose" or "bud" shaped final will be more appropriate on this one. Thanks! and you're right about wootz, but it would've been nice bonus:-)

19th June 2011, 10:48 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Nice bud - where did you get it?