Keris gamble, fingers crossed?

[Tim Simmons]

I have gambled what I consider quite a fair sum of the folding stuff on this keris. I thought it looked old and interesting. I have taken a lot of pictures that will take a couple of posts to upload. Have I been a bit silly? I have no real idea about it.

Go on punch me in the stomach, I can take it .

[Tim Simmons]

I was surprised how short the tang is 40mm. The blade is also too thin to be a fighting weapon? I am happy to spend money on African special weapons but this just makes me feel a little uncomfortable. The patterns on the blade are very swirly. The ring thingy has some damage which is made of copper and brass. The handle is rather dainty carved from some dark horn with a nice patina. There has also been a patch, fill in? repair with a gum substance, to the wood scabbard just where it meets the metal sleeve. As far as I can tell looking inside and outside, this happened at the time it was being made or soon afterwards. I do not know if I should put a new bit of cloth round the tang to stop the handle turning round. I do no think it is the original cloth.

[David]

Well Tim, i think it all depends on just how much of the folding stuff you actually laid out for this keris. To me it looks like a genuinely old Jawa keris in Dyogyakarta dress. The pendok (the metal thingy on the sheath ) looks like a nicely reprossed white brass or mamas. The blade may be thin now, but keep in mind that it has probably seen many years of acid washing and was no doubt much stouter when it was made, so i wouldn't count it out as a usable blade. The pamor looks like it might be the very popular wos wutah (scattered rice). I think it is a very collectable old piece, but it doesn't look like anything too extraordinary to me. The hilt does look nice with a nice patina. Are you sure it is horn and not some dark wood?

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks David. Well it is probably around 11 portions. The handle is wood I think.

[David]

Yep, i figured the hilt was probably wood. Looks like it is a good example of that form though.
To answer your other question, if i were you i would feel free to add abit more cloth or yarn to stablize the hilt. Unfortunately, over time tangs often break or are foreshortened, making keeping the hilt in place even more difficult. Be careful to add material slowly to the tang. You want the hilt to stay in place, but to don't want to crack the wood.

[Tim Simmons]

To be honest now I have had time to really look. I am more than a little dissapointed with it. The handle is already cracked and have a feeling that the bottom section of the blade has been gunged up with glue. The tang is so short and tapered I do not think I will ever be able to stop it turning so easily. I do not have much luck with these things, I should and will stick to what I do know about and have more of a feel for. It is a pain in the bum learning these lessons, so late in game so to speak. ouch

[Henk]

Tim,

Can you show us a picture of the tang or pesi as the tang of a keris is called?
And maybe also a picture of the crack in the ukiran and the glued section.

As David said, it appears as a very nice Djogyakarta keris with an old blade. A thin blade is not very uncommon for an old kerisblade.

[Tim Simmons]

The blade is lovely. It seems to have had a hard life in the hands of a previous owner. I can see the problem, the hole in the handle is just to large. So the resort to glue. The picture looking up the tang shows that it is all stuffed up with muck which is easier to see in the flesh. The tang being so short and tapered it really needs a new handle.
I have put more glue muck in the handle but still cannot get acceptable pressure on the tang with such a large hole.

[Rick]

Tim, a clever guy like you should be able to figger a way to extend/strengthen that tang ..

I like the keris.

[Michel]

Tim,
Do not work on the peksi, (the tang), it is very difficult and you may deteriorate it. Your problem is simple: a too big hole in the the Ukiran (handle). Stuff it with a neat piece of hard wood, that you glue properly. Then you drill a new hole into it of the correct diameter (1 tenth of a milimeter smaller than your peksi) You will fix the ukiran without glue and without problem.
Do not be disappointed with your keris. The blade looks good and the sheath and handle are very traditional and seems to be well done.
Smile you have a nice collectible kris.
Regards
Michel

[David]

Tim, your pesi is short, but i have seen shorter and made a solid fit. If i were you i would remove all the "glue muck" from the hilt. This is not the right way to form a pressure fit with the pesi. You do not need a new hilt. You just need to mount it properly. Find some soft cottony material and wrap it 'round and 'round the pesi until you built up enough bulk that it fits snuggly in the hole. A thin strip cut to about a foot might be enough to do the trick. If the pesi length really is too short you can probably attach a piece to lengthen it. This is done traditionally to keris sometimes in these cases.
I don't think this keris has had so much a hard life as a long one. The wear on your blade is common for it's age group.

[kai]

Hello Tim,

The handle is already cracked and have a feeling that the bottom section of the blade has been gunged up with glue.

These seem to be hairline cracks from age - nothing too serious but avoid too much pressure (which is also true for apparently intact keris hilts).

It's also not uncommon for gonjo of old, washed blades to become loose and get reattached (although the cheap glue used by many dealers certainly isn't a traditional nor decent choice).

The tang is so short and tapered I do not think I will ever be able to stop it turning so easily.

The pesi is obviously shorter than it used to be originally. However, the current tradition (especially on Jawa and most collectors worldwide) to use some piece of cloth or threads to wrap the pesi until it just holds the hilt will always allow the blade to turn. Since you basically hold the blade rather than just the hilt, you could still use many old keris as a weapon; however, in unaltered examples from the "good, old days" when and where they apparently were utilized more frequently as weapons you often see their hilts firmly attached with some mixture(s) of natural resins/pitch/etc. BTW, a flimsy tang can always be repaired which is often done in Jawa AFAIK.

If you like the blade, don't quibble too much with the remainder - neither the pesi nor the larger hole of the ukiran would be considered a fatal flaw in Jawa. Obviously, this keris is not perfect: a perfect, old keris will cost you the equivalent of one or more estates rather than meals...

Establishing what you really look for in a blade (and getting some exposure to the many different keris styles) will certainly help you to get comfortable in the grey zone most of us mortals are stuck with collecting...

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

If you like the blade, don't quibble too much with the remainder - neither the pesi nor the larger hole of the ukiran would be considered a fatal flaw in Jawa. Obviously, this keris is not perfect: a perfect, old keris will cost you the equivalent of one or more estates rather than meals...

Establishing what you really look for in a blade (and getting some exposure to the many different keris styles) will certainly help you to get comfortable in the grey zone most of us mortals are stuck with collecting...

Well put Kai. And i agree that the crack in the hilt is hairline and nothing to particularly worry about. As Kai points out, a fine old keris in supurb condition will cost you a bit more than a few portins of fish & chips. As with any keris the bottom line is do you like it, does it call to you.
When you attach a piece to lenghten your pesi is called disambung and it is an acceptable way to salvage an old keris. I would say that if you were really into renovating this old boy you could also get a new mendak (the metal ring thingy that is missing some bits ) for it. You could probably replace it with a very similar style. It is certainly the easiest improvement you could make and it wouldn't set you back more than a few portions.

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually, this is not a real bad old keris.

Yeah, sure, its a bit untidy in places, but for its age it is not bad at all.

The dress is middle of the road in quality and presentation; I suspect that the pendok will test as silver---the embossing looks too fine for it to be mamas.

A pretty fair old keris.

You cannot apply the same rules of appraisal to keris that you would to any other weapon. A keris like this cannot really be regarded as a weapon, but more as a cultural icon.

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks everybody. I might try something in time.