Military Museum Pictures

[erlikhan]

You like edged weapons? Ok here they are. More than you can watch and i can upload at once. From Military Museum in Istanbul. Around 80 pics taken by me. I will continue the series when i have time. Keep visiting periodically

[TVV]

Thanks Erlikhan, this looks like it is going to be a great thread.

[erlikhan]

1- Original Janissary costume with its mountings
2- Sword of Suleyman 1, the magnificent. 1530.
it writes "ones who died by your sword lie everywhere like drunks. I wonder if masters vined your sword instead of watering"
3-Another kilij for Suleyman 1.
4-I try to take close view
5-Belongs to Selim the Grim. 1512
6-Close view
7-a strange ,gigantic hilted two hand Turkish dagger .19th century
8-Coralled and jewelled sword of Murat 4. 1630
9-Coralled Turkish kilij. 19th cent.
10-Another janissary

[erlikhan]

1- Ruby and emerald Iran kilij. 17th cent.
2- Ruby and emerald Turkish kilij .17th cent. See the significant similarities of scabbard decorations.
3- 2 gold engraved Turkish .17th cent.

[Jeff D]

You are making my day. Keep the Kilijs coming!!!

Jeff

[Conogre]

Simply beautiful.....as always, I came to a screeching halt when I hit the "gigantic two-handed dagger".
Maybe it's a genetic quirk? **grin**
Again, wonderful photos of some magnificent pieces, thank you.

[erlikhan]

Yeahh.Kilijsss. then some more 4 u
1- 18th cent.
2- hmm. shashkilij or kilijka? 19th c. Caucasus
3- 19th.c Turkish
4- Zulfikar. 16th c.. pay attention to its pommel

[Federico]

Awesome pics, simply awesome.

[rasdan]

It would be nice if we have a drolling smiley, coz i need one right now. Greaaaaat pics!!!

[zelbone]

Erlikhan, wonderful photos!!! I always wanted to see what Janissary armour looked like after reading about them and watching a television program on the History Channel about the Janissary. The kilijs are wonderful. Thanks for sharing!

[erlikhan]

Everybody, thanks for your interest. Then some more.
1- Balkans. 18-19 th c.
2- Balkans
3- Yataghans
4- Kilij. Iran
5-Daggers. Turkish. 19th c.
6- Dagger close view
7-Mameluke. 15th c.

8 - Iran. 16th c.
9- I didn't forget keris fans . there is a modest collection of 10-15 pcs in the museum
10- Kerises 18-19th c
11- Morocco. 19th c
12- Mameluke. 14th c.

13- Russian. 19 th c.
14- Few from European collection. 17th c.
15- Hungarian. 19th c.
16- Says "double handed epee". Means "human hand"? More than 2 mts in length!!. 16th c. German
Will continue..

[erlikhan]

And more..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by erlikhan

And more..

Salaams All ~ sorry for the double entry here ...eek cant delete this one... please see below for correct letter. Ibrahiim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by erlikhan

And more..

Salaams All ~ Whilst down in the basement I happened to dig up this very interesting thread which is well worth having a look at... In these pictures is what I believe to be the influence to straight Old Omani Battle Swords "Sayf." Originally the photo shows an Abaasid weapon #11 foto 11 and below that a long handled sword with no quillons but a big cuff that was also Abaasid #11 foto 12 but passed down the centuries to become a Saudia/Yemeni weapon (with a remarkably similar hilt to the Old Omani Batttle Sword.. It is not beyond reason that these two swords both influenced the Old Omani design. Regards Ibrahiim.

[Michael Blalock]

Ibrahiim, Thanks for bringing this back. I did not see this when it was first posted. Beautiful swords. Yes, the Mamluke swords look very much to be the foundation of the south arabian straight sword. I think the sword in photo 12 with the spade end is an example of the south arabian sword we have seen in the Yemeni museum, Riyadh and I think you have one.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Ibrahiim, Thanks for bringing this back. I did not see this when it was first posted. Beautiful swords. Yes, the Mamluke swords look very much to be the foundation of the south arabian straight sword. I think the sword in photo 12 with the spade end is an example of the south arabian sword we have seen in the Yemeni museum, Riyadh and I think you have one.

Salaams Michael Blalock,
Mamluk Weapons. The point being that they got many designs from the Abaasids. The Abaasids may well have taken the design from the previous dynasty (Umayyad) however since the Abaasid were infatuated with "The Greeks" who knows?.... probably both influences. Certainly the whole lot influeced the Ottomans... so we see tantalising likenesses in the Topkapi etc.

On the subject of the spatulate tip sword like your museum photos yes there is part of the link. It is possible that it may have influenced the Old Omani Sayf insofar as hilt design (however more squat in size on the Omani since the blade is short) and that the other blades shown here in this thread which are almost exact copies of the Abaasid/Umayyid are linked to the Old Omani Sword.

I have to say however that no early spatulate tip Omani Sword was ever discovered. It is a peculiar twist since spatulates suddenly reappear in possibly the 18th C though I am personally not at all yet convinced about their provenance thus the TVV thread Kattara For Comments in which we continue to meander..

Where I think the Mamluke re appears in the Red Sea is exactly where you portay them i.e. Saudia and possibly a spill over to the Yemen.

What a gem it was to run into this as I was sweeping through the early threads... plodging about in the basement.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Erlikhan - I will say it simply: "THANK YOU !!!"

[Sajen]

Thank you for the intersting pictures!

[Rick]

Photos all still here after seven years !

[ALEX]

Some of my pictures from the visit to Askeri Musei last year.

[ALEX]

a few more...

[CharlesS]

Thanks so much for your time and effort in the pics. I visited this museum this past summer and was just mesmerized. I was, however, a little concerned over the upkeep and care of the some of the pieces.

The museum did not appear interested in revealing wootz steel at all, but instead kept them in their "as found" condition.

There are some superb wootz blades hidden in those pics....

Thanks again!

[ariel]

The same is true about blades in the Turkish Chamber in Dresden and in the Wallace.
My guess the conservators :
1. Wanted to keep them in the "as found" condition ( as sugested by Charles)
2. Did not want to subject them to acid etching, ie corrosion.
Academically correct, but esthetically disappointing.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams and thanks for bringing up this brillant thread... The picture at #11 is absolutely relevant to the sword under scrutiny presently and I had forgotten that I already had posted with Michael Blalock on this sighting...Currently we are puzzling over the weapon as being Yemeni etc.

see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/newrep...ote=1&p=152299 Scroll down 12 pictures(final picture) and see 3rd from right sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[T. Koch]

Thank you Erlikhan, if you are ever still around!

I think my heart just broke from seeing too many awesome kilic with too many great yelmans... Also I like the keris and especially the rencong in #11 is drool'a'licious!


- Thor

[Richard G]

Interesting to see the daggers in post #11, no 5 described as Turkish?
Regards
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Michael Blalock,
Mamluk Weapons. The point being that they got many designs from the Abaasids. The Abaasids may well have taken the design from the previous dynasty (Umayyad) however since the Abaasid were infatuated with "The Greeks" who knows?.... probably both influences. Certainly the whole lot influeced the Ottomans... so we see tantalising likenesses in the Topkapi etc.

On the subject of the spatulate tip sword like your museum photos yes there is part of the link. It is possible that it may have influenced the Old Omani Sayf insofar as hilt design (however more squat in size on the Omani since the blade is short) and that the other blades shown here in this thread which are almost exact copies of the Abaasid/Umayyid are linked to the Old Omani Sword.

I have to say however that no early spatulate tip Omani Sword was ever discovered. It is a peculiar twist since spatulates suddenly reappear in possibly the 18th C though I am personally not at all yet convinced about their provenance thus the TVV thread Kattara For Comments in which we continue to meander..

Where I think the Mamluke re appears in the Red Sea is exactly where you portay them i.e. Saudia and possibly a spill over to the Yemen.

What a gem it was to run into this as I was sweeping through the early threads... plodging about in the basement.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams all Note to Forum . In the attached post I made reference to early spatulate tip not being found on Omani swords. This was not correct since Omani Battle Swords were in fact round spatulate tipped... a fact brought out on Kattara for comments after a lengthly debate. # 314 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455 and comparing it with the Abassiid.

Currently the situation is in some interesting territory since it is realised how the museum sword in this thread # 11 (last picture), is virtually the same hilt as the sword at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16205 and is so like the Omani Battle Sword and the Mamluke sister to it in # 11 (second from last picture). (Shown below.)

It may also transpire that the influence which brought the Omani Straight Sayf dancing sword and curved Kattara hilt and blade form is staring right at us.

Further - that the sword held by the man (shown below) is a similar blade to the museum blade and clearly Mamluke and that the Sword in the Wallace is connected in what I would describe as a Royal or Sheikhs style being very ornate.. sporting a German blade with added Islamic script and a magnificent scabbard.

It is interesting also that we almost stumbled upon this series of linkages already but that it was overlooked and has only just surfaced because of Swedegreens thread and follow up questions by Khanjar 1. The goal, however, is scored by Forum and a big breakthrough surely ensues.

Indeed the entire prospect of a redrawn hypothsis is on the table linking Abbasiid, Mamluke, Ottoman, Yemeni and Omani sword styles down the ages.

The prospect is very exciting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by erlikhan

You like edged weapons? Ok here they are. More than you can watch and i can upload at once. From Military Museum in Istanbul. Around 80 pics taken by me. I will continue the series when i have time. Keep visiting periodically

Salaams Erlikhan ~ Shukran ... Your excellent pictures have inspired a new look at the Red Sea influence on Yemeni and Omani Ethnographic Arms..Kind regards.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.