Khazar weapons

Ann Feuerbach · 18th April 2011, 05:19 PM

Hi everyone,
I am looking for information on Khazar weaponry, particularly swords/sabres. Can anyone help?
Thanks
Ann

TimW · 18th April 2011, 06:14 PM

Hy Ann

Unfortunately I cannot help you out, but I am pleased to see you here... Remember, a long time ago, at the Paimpont lakeside?

My best regards

Tim Wagendorp (the belgian knifemaker / friend of Achim).

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2011, 06:56 PM

Hi Ann,
Its really nice to have you posting here!!!
This is a fascinating but incredibly perplexing question, for me at least

I think the most difficult problem is of course understanding exactly how the term Khazar is meant, and what period or regions are being considered. If I understand correctly, with my meagre compehension of this incredibly complex history, the Khazars disappeared as a culturally distinct people around the 10th-11th century.
As with many cases of these nomadic peoples and tribes who have ultimately diffused into other cultures and groups, there are numerous points of view in finding origins and establishing thier diffusion into other group classifications.

In certain regions they were displaced and assimilated by Rus, Kipchaks, Golden Horde Mongols; in other cases they were allied with varying Byzantine principalities; they were deeply influenced by the Orient as they were in prominent connection with the Silk Road, and very much connected with Transcaucasian and Caucasian regions. All of this as I understand leads to thier heritage present in weapons of the Northern Caucusus, Georgia, Crimea, Armenia, Azerbijian and to the Uyghur, Sabir and Altaic groups of the Steppes.

I apologize if I am confusing what is a straightforward question, but it is a subject I would like to learn more on myself, and very much look forward to the kind of perspective that would develop in your most highly regarded presence. Your work in metallurgy is legion here! and again, I'm very excited to see you posting.

I did think of one reference which if I recall correctly had line drawings of what I believe were captioned as 'Khazar'...that is the two volume set by Dr. David Nicolle, "Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350", 1999. I thought I would mention it for readers as Im sure you are already aware of it.

All very best regards,
Jim

Ann Feuerbach · 19th April 2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimW

Hy Ann

Unfortunately I cannot help you out, but I am pleased to see you here... Remember, a long time ago, at the Paimpont lakeside?

My best regards

Tim Wagendorp (the belgian knifemaker / friend of Achim).

Hi Tim,
Of course I remember you! I saw Achim and Fabian in Germany at the Damascus Steel conference a few years ago. I was wondering why you weren't there! Might get over to Belgium this summer for a few days.

Ann Feuerbach · 19th April 2011, 02:58 PM

Hi Jim,
I have been lurking around the website but teaching was taking the place of research...but now back to research. I now have a book contract in hand for my crucible steel book so writing up is paramount now!

The history of the Khazars and the peopling of that whole area is complex. I'll see how much I can learn!

Jens Nordlunde · 19th April 2011, 04:31 PM

Hi Ann,
I very much doubt that I can help, but which time frame are you looking for?
Funny, they seem to have been using the Hungarian Runic Alphabet in the earlier times.
Jens

Jim McDougall · 19th April 2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Feuerbach

Hi Jim,
I have been lurking around the website but teaching was taking the place of research...but now back to research. I now have a book contract in hand for my crucible steel book so writing up is paramount now!

The history of the Khazars and the peopling of that whole area is complex. I'll see how much I can learn!

Hi Ann,
Excellent news on the book!!! Please keep us posted OK!!! It will be a best seller around here for sure

, not to mention being excitedly received by everyone familiar with your outstanding work.

The history of these people and thier cultures is fascinating, and indeed very, very complex. It will be great to learn more and put the puzzle together!
I have sent you a PM.

All the best,
Jim

Ann Feuerbach · 20th April 2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Ann,
I very much doubt that I can help, but which time frame are you looking for?
Funny, they seem to have been using the Hungarian Runic Alphabet in the earlier times.
Jens

Hi Jens!
I am looking at 9th -12th, give or take a century or so.
Ann

Jim McDougall · 20th April 2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Ann,
I very much doubt that I can help, but which time frame are you looking for?
Funny, they seem to have been using the Hungarian Runic Alphabet in the earlier times.
Jens

Very astutely observed Jens!!!

Apparantly the Khazars were not only allied with the Magyars but largely in control of these tribes at the height of thier power, with both Khazars and Hungarians founding the famed city of Kiev.

All the best,
Jim

18th April 2011, 05:19 PM	#1
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Khazar weapons Hi everyone, I am looking for information on Khazar weaponry, particularly swords/sabres. Can anyone help? Thanks Ann

18th April 2011, 06:56 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Ann, Its really nice to have you posting here!!! This is a fascinating but incredibly perplexing question, for me at least I think the most difficult problem is of course understanding exactly how the term Khazar is meant, and what period or regions are being considered. If I understand correctly, with my meagre compehension of this incredibly complex history, the Khazars disappeared as a culturally distinct people around the 10th-11th century. As with many cases of these nomadic peoples and tribes who have ultimately diffused into other cultures and groups, there are numerous points of view in finding origins and establishing thier diffusion into other group classifications. In certain regions they were displaced and assimilated by Rus, Kipchaks, Golden Horde Mongols; in other cases they were allied with varying Byzantine principalities; they were deeply influenced by the Orient as they were in prominent connection with the Silk Road, and very much connected with Transcaucasian and Caucasian regions. All of this as I understand leads to thier heritage present in weapons of the Northern Caucusus, Georgia, Crimea, Armenia, Azerbijian and to the Uyghur, Sabir and Altaic groups of the Steppes. I apologize if I am confusing what is a straightforward question, but it is a subject I would like to learn more on myself, and very much look forward to the kind of perspective that would develop in your most highly regarded presence. Your work in metallurgy is legion here! and again, I'm very excited to see you posting. I did think of one reference which if I recall correctly had line drawings of what I believe were captioned as 'Khazar'...that is the two volume set by Dr. David Nicolle, "Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350", 1999. I thought I would mention it for readers as Im sure you are already aware of it. All very best regards, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th April 2011 at 08:04 PM.

18th April 2011, 06:14 PM	#2
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	Hy Ann Unfortunately I cannot help you out, but I am pleased to see you here... Remember, a long time ago, at the Paimpont lakeside? My best regards Tim Wagendorp (the belgian knifemaker / friend of Achim).

19th April 2011, 02:58 PM	#5
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Hi Jim, I have been lurking around the website but teaching was taking the place of research...but now back to research. I now have a book contract in hand for my crucible steel book so writing up is paramount now! The history of the Khazars and the peopling of that whole area is complex. I'll see how much I can learn!

19th April 2011, 04:31 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Ann, I very much doubt that I can help, but which time frame are you looking for? Funny, they seem to have been using the Hungarian Runic Alphabet in the earlier times. Jens