Sundang for comment

[drac2k]

I just picked up this interesting Sundang.It is fairly large as the blade measures 24.75" and the ganja measures 5.75. " It does have a sharp luk and I do not believe the ganja to be separate from blade even though, it has been made to appear so.
I would guess the age of the sword to be 1900 to pre-WW2.The real clue is in the faded inscription which reads "Ebwarb Clinton,-----C.G. 27, Inf.Manila P.I.," or so it looks to me.
Also, I haven't ever gotten a definitive answer to pieces of cloth attached to these swords;was it purely talismanic, was it to secure a better grip like a European sword lanyard, would the swirling swatch be used to confuse an adversary, or was it a sign of rank.

[Battara]

I would say a few things:

1. This is a Maranao kris.

2. The cloth served as both talismanic (blessed by an imam) and for wrapping the hand.

3. In the old days, to wear red meant that you had killed enemies in battle.

4. I might date this to the 1910s

5. Etch the blade. This can tell us even more.

6. Looks like an American soldier had polished this nice and bright (unfortunately). Again a good etch would bring it back to form.

7. It does look like a separate ganga by the pictures. Maybe close ups would help.

[drac2k]

Battara, your replies for 1 through 4 answered all my questions.In regards to #5 ,I've decided that I don't want to etch my blades, as I don't know what I'm doing and it is not that important to me (sour grapes ?).On number six, I plead guilty;when I get a new blade, I clean it with Wenol Silver Polish to remove all of the grit and surface rust and then I seal it with bowling alley wax.On number 7, I will try to post a better picture.
Thanks for the information !

[Sajen]

Hello Drac2k,

I would agree with Jose in nearly all points. I also would place this nice warrior piece by the turn of the centuries. That you have polished the blade bring out only the original grinding finish from the blade. Great that this blade is still in such good condition. But agree with Jose that this blade need a good etch, again, you can't make something wrong when you etch it with vinegar, it would be a shame don't to etch this nice piece. Very nice with the mansala in a very good condition. Very nice piece, congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

[drac2k]

Thanks Detlef for the kind comments ; on the vinegar etch, maybe someday.

[drac2k]

Here are some better pictures of the ganja.

[kai]

Yup, definitely a separate gangya!

I'd also believe this Moro kris to be first quarter of the 20th century or even a bit younger. Interesting arrangement of fullers at the base!

Regards,
Kai

[drac2k]

Thanks for the information Kai.

[Battara]

I agree with Kai - separate ganga - a great thing to have for an earlier piece. Much later do we see gangas simulated by an engraving line.

Good for you!

[Ian]

Agree with many of the comments so far, particularly with respect to an etching.

Drac, the nice thing about light etching with vinegar is that you can erase a mistake very easily by simply doing a fine polish to bring the blade back to bright metal. In fact, that is really the only way to learn about etching blades--it is somewhat trial and error, and a lot of experimentation. Because you never know quite what you have until you look, there really is no perfect procedure to follow that will produce an excellent result in all cases.

Take a crack at it, and you may be surprised by what you find.

Ian.

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks Detlef for the kind comments ; on the vinegar etch, maybe someday.

[drac2k]

Now I am about to show my ignorance ; would the original owner of a sundang or a barong (not a kris ), etch his blade , especially a fighting sword?
I suppose, my first etch, will be like learning to swim; you just have to jump in...........wait was that big dark shadow I see, is that a fin ?!?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Now I am about to show my ignorance ; would the original owner of a sundang or a barong (not a kris ), etch his blade , especially a fighting sword?
I suppose, my first etch, will be like learning to swim; you just have to jump in...........wait was that big dark shadow I see, is that a fin ?!?

Hello Drac2k,

there is really no danger to find a white shark in your pool. It's like Ian write, when you don't like the result just clean the blade again like you describe byself. Clean the blade with aceton and brush the blade with a hot vinegar solution. I personally use vinegar essence (20%) with water. Heat the blade as well a little bit and brush the blade with the solution. Sometimes the reaction is fast, sometimes slow, just like Ian write before. Just try it, there is 100% not the tiniest risk to harm the blade! After this rinse the blade by very warm water, dry it and polish it up with oil. Maybe you will be very surprised.
As far if the Moros etch their blades: it seems that they have done it like a few old pictures show, it was a topic in some old discussions.
And frankly said look a bright blade by an antique weapon a little bit vexing, see the comment from Jose! An etch darken the blade. This you can control by the etching agent and the final polish. Vinegar is a very mild etching agent, like said, it can't harm the blade. Have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris You see the result of a vinegar etch, one of my early attempts.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here another example from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris

[drac2k]

Wow..........you got some very fantastic and remarkable results from your etchings; certainly a very compelling reason to do so.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Wow..........you got some very fantastic and remarkable results from your etchings; certainly a very compelling reason to do so.

Thank you and just try it and show the result here!

[kai]

I'd also believe this Moro kris to be first quarter of the 20th century or even a bit younger.

Sorry, I meant older, i. e. possibly also later 19th c.

BTW, I'd also strongly endorse etching of this blade: Very likely laminated! And this blade is sound enough to be able to deal with a lot of etching attempts...

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

There are pictures of datus holding kris and barong that are etched dark.

[drac2k]

Thank you all for your information and comments ; I will take them into consideration.