Yemeni Jambiya/Thuma with strange markings

[mrwizard]

Picked this one up along the way. The seller knew nothing about it except that it was brought back from the UK in the late 1940ies together with a gunong and a kukri (strange combination ).

From what i learned here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13214
This type of jambiya is called thuma and worn mosty by scholars and judges.
Hilt and sheat are most likely of german silver. The decorations are made from wire and then soldered to the surface. The blade has a triangular spine and appears to be massive. I don't see any traces that indicate it has been welded together.

What puzzles me are the marks on the back of the hilt. It doesn't look like language. I was hoping someone here has an idea about what these could mean/represent.

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Michael Blalock]

I'm fairly certain the top word is amal عمل which means made by or made in, the bottom word in indecipherable to me but that is not surprising considering the way amal is written. Most likely a name or a location. I think this jambiya is from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

[mrwizard]

Thank you!

I have been sitting here with a table of the arabian alphabet and didn't recognize anything.
But now that you say it, i see the 'ain and mim. I can not, however, recognize the trailing lam. For me the last glyph looks like alif.
...maybe i should start learning arabian

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Michael Blalock]

Writing on jambiyas is usually in Ruq'ah script, it's like the difference between cursive and printing in english. It can be impossible to read unless you have had a bit of practice with learing arabic cursive. Most handwritten arabic on antiques and artifacts is written this way so I found it a big help to get a book on learing Ruq'ah script in order to be able to decipher words and look up their meaning in the dictionary.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Thilo,
Very nice piece you have there!!
Here is a similar one from my collection. The translation on this one reads AMAL MOHAMED MIDWANE 1378 (1958AD) JEDDAH. One of our Members will no doubt be able to clarify what the script on your Jambiya says.
Regards Stuart

[Atlantia]

Lovely example Thilo.
I particularly like 'all metal' weapons.

Best
Gene

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

I'm fairly certain the top word is amal عمل which means made by or made in, the bottom word in indecipherable to me

Well done Michael
just a suggestion for the lower word,
considering the first letter "K" and what could ... should be (?) the other signs
KINAN كنان it's a Turkish name
I haven't a certitude, only an idea

à +

Dom

[mrwizard]

Thanks for all the valuable suggestions.
It's really amazing what can be learned on this forum

@Michael
Good advice with the Ruq'ah script. But this is currently far beyond my abilities. I guess i should start learning to read
standard arabic script and then continue from there.

@Stuart
Thanks, I've already noticed your very similar jambiya. You presented it in the thread referenced in the first post.
Main difference seems to be the "spike" at the tip of the sheat... and that the maker of your piece has a far clearer writing style.

@Gene
Thanks! While i personally like a combination of different materials, the "all metal" pieces have the benefit that you don't run into trouble with CITES

@Dom
Kinan? Hmm, there is indeed some similarity. Good suggestion!

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Steve]

Hi Thilo,
I also can't give you a full translation however just about all these inscriptions now start with " made by....".
However I can tell you that the dagger hilt style is termed "Hodeidah" style as they were made in the Hodeidah area in Yemen for over 100 years. They were generally made without the scabbard which was added in various styles later, often in another city , such as Taiz. The triangular formation of dots are supposed to be grape bunches, grown in the Yemen Tihama.
In the 1950's, plus or minus ten years, due to civil unrest in Yemen the skills moved up the Red Sea to Jeddah where the jambiyas were made for the growing Muslim tourist market on their way to Mecca. These daggers were matched with the type of scabbards both you and Stu have. By 1980, the silversmithing industry was really over in Hodeidah.
I agree with the previous comments that your jambiya is from Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and probably 1960's. Stu's is probably a little older.
All silver jambiyas can look spectacular.
Regards,
Steve

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Hi Thilo,
I also can't give you a full translation however just about all these inscriptions now start with " made by....".
However I can tell you that the dagger hilt style is termed "Hodeidah" style as they were made in the Hodeidah area in Yemen for over 100 years. They were generally made without the scabbard which was added in various styles later, often in another city , such as Taiz. The triangular formation of dots are supposed to be grape bunches, grown in the Yemen Tihama.
In the 1950's, plus or minus ten years, due to civil unrest in Yemen the skills moved up the Red Sea to Jeddah where the jambiyas were made for the growing Muslim tourist market on their way to Mecca. These daggers were matched with the type of scabbards both you and Stu have. By 1980, the silversmithing industry was really over in Hodeidah.
I agree with the previous comments that your jambiya is from Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and probably 1960's. Stu's is probably a little older.
All silver jambiyas can look spectacular.
Regards,
Steve

Very nice discussion ... We can't decipher this at all !! Steve / Stu; whereas yours has a clear script to it... the other seems to be only artistic or representative form and some squiggles that could represent something quite different~ An evil "Djinn"... for which the wearer is protected against by having the "Djinn" inscribed on the dagger. The silver being the medium by which such Djinns are repelled.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Hi Thilo,
I also can't give you a full translation however just about all these inscriptions now start with " made by....".
However I can tell you that the dagger hilt style is termed "Hodeidah" style as they were made in the Hodeidah area in Yemen for over 100 years. They were generally made without the scabbard which was added in various styles later, often in another city , such as Taiz. The triangular formation of dots are supposed to be grape bunches, grown in the Yemen Tihama.
In the 1950's, plus or minus ten years, due to civil unrest in Yemen the skills moved up the Red Sea to Jeddah where the jambiyas were made for the growing Muslim tourist market on their way to Mecca. These daggers were matched with the type of scabbards both you and Stu have. By 1980, the silversmithing industry was really over in Hodeidah.
I agree with the previous comments that your jambiya is from Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and probably 1960's. Stu's is probably a little older.
All silver jambiyas can look spectacular.
Regards,
Steve

Very nice discussion ... We can't decipher this at all !! Steve; whereas yours has a clear script to it... the other seems to be only artistic or representative form and some squiggles that could represent something quite different~ An evil "Djinn"... for which the wearer is protected against by having the "Djinn" inscribed on the dagger. The silver being the medium by which such Djinns are repelled.

[mrwizard]

@Steve
Thank you for the additional information. I already wondered if there was some meaning behind the decorations.
After your remark that scabbard and hilt were generally made seperately i had a closer look. Indeed there is a (very) small difference in the craftmanship of the scabbard. While the work might have been done by different persons, i doubt it has been done at different cities. The materials and techniques seem to be identical.
The timeframe you mentioned roughly matches the story of the seller, who told me that it was purchased right after WW2 in the UK.

@Ibrahim
That the writing on the hilt could be some kind warding glyph was also my first thought. But after the help from Michael and Dom i now suspect that it is just a maker with an artistic ambition...

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by mrwizard

@Steve
Thank you for the additional information. I already wondered if there was some meaning behind the decorations.
After your remark that scabbard and hilt were generally made seperately i had a closer look. Indeed there is a (very) small difference in the craftmanship of the scabbard. While the work might have been done by different persons, i doubt it has been done at different cities. The materials and techniques seem to be identical.
The timeframe you mentioned roughly matches the story of the seller, who told me that it was purchased right after WW2 in the UK.

@Ibrahim
That the writing on the hilt could be some kind warding glyph was also my first thought. But after the help from Michael and Dom i now suspect that it is just a maker with an artistic ambition...

Best Regards,
Thilo

Thanks... You might be right but...However... The maker does not usually inscribe rough dotted inscriptions on a piece... it is usually done by the owner afterwards. Thus it is a Djinn (the personal Djinn of the owner)... put on by him to ward off evil spirits~ in this case a very specific ''Djinn''
or nightmare!