Matching Balinese keris sheath and hilt

rasdan · 12th June 2017, 11:29 AM

Hi guys,

Last year I ordered a new Balinese kekandikan sheath and cekahan hilt from two different dealers in Lombok for one of my Balinese keris.

I was told the sheath is timoho. I forgot to ask the type of wood for the hilt. Probably timoho as well. Since the hilt was made at a different time without the sheath, it looks like it is a bit small for the kekandikan.

I have a new (that was made to look old) gold plated metal locengan hilt that is a perfect fit for the kekandikan sheath in terms of size. However I would prefer to use the wooden hilt due to "originality" purposes.

My aim is I wanted the setup to be period correct to at least the 19th century. I have browsed through some old picture of Balinese wearing keris, but I cannot found a picture of a keris worn with a kekandikan sheath and cekahan hilt.

However, ample examples of the setup can be found in Mr. Lalu Djelenga's book, Keris di Lombok. This makes me think that the setup is probably new.

My question, is it correct to use cekahan hilt with a kekandikan sheath in the old times? Anybody have an old picture of this setup?

Finally, the blade that is going to be fitted in this sheath is a Balinese blade that looks like a Javanese keris i.e relatively shorter and smaller compared with an average Balinese keris. The entire setup is about 30 inch long and the blade is just about 14 inch long. Questions is, have you seen shorter Balinese dressed with a large sheath like this? Any opinions?

mariusgmioc · 12th June 2017, 12:00 PM

They look very beautiful! I like them!

And I do not think the wooden hilt is too short.

However, I am waiting to read other oppinions from more knowledgeable people as to whether they are in style with the Balinese tradition.

Regards,

Marius

PS: Can you show us the blade please?

David · 12th June 2017, 03:42 PM

I can't really tell if the cecekahan hilt is too short or not, but it does not immediately look odd when i view it in the photos.
Just personally i prefer the ensemble with the metal gerantiman hilt.

I cannot answer your question about the legitimacy of this pairing you desire in the 19th century.
I can say that i personally do own an unusually short Bali keris dressed i a sheath that is much longer than the blade. I believe if one is going to wear ones keris is what we see as the standard Balinese style (to the back with the hilt riding up over the shoulder) that the sheath must be long enough to make this positioning possible regardless of the length of the blade.

Jean · 12th June 2017, 04:56 PM

According to Lalu Djelenga, the cecekahan or cekah solas (11 notches) hilts were worn by soldiers and are matching with batun poh style scabbards. Your metal hilt is in gerantiman style IMO which ideally matches with kekandikan krisses but from the pics it looks a bit oversized as compared to the sampir.
Regards

David · 12th June 2017, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Your metal hilt is in gerantiman style IMO which ideally matches with kekandikan krisses but from the pics it looks a bit oversized as compared to the sampir.

I wonder if the sizing might look a little bit better without the uwer.

rasdan · 12th June 2017, 05:48 PM

Thanks Marius, probably I have been staring at it for too long that it appears awkward.

Regarding the blade, please accept my apologies, it is not something that I wish to display in public. I am very sorry..

Hi David, the gerantiman looks nice in photo, but in hand it feels very light that it gives you a “toyish” feel. However, I haven’t really held a real old gerantim hilt to say this for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe if one is going to wear ones keris is what we see as the standard Balinese style (to the back with the hilt riding up over the shoulder) that the sheath must be long enough to make this positioning possible regardless of the length of the blade.

Yes, I guess we need a longer sheath if somebody is going to wear it with a traditional Balinese style. It is just that this one is a bit longer than usual. Almost like a keris ligan sheath length.

Thanks Jean, I forgot the correct term for the hilt is gerantiman. In my opinion the length is OK since the height is almost the same with the length of the top sheath. I checked with the one at the cover of Keris di Lombok, this ratio seems correct.

rasdan · 12th June 2017, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I wonder if the sizing might look a little bit better without the uwer.

Yes, I have tried this and the ratio looks still OK..

kai · 12th June 2017, 06:10 PM

Hello Rasdan,

Quote:

I believe if one is going to wear ones keris is what we see as the standard Balinese style (to the back with the hilt riding up over the shoulder) that the sheath must be long enough to make this positioning possible regardless of the length of the blade.

I second David's opinion. I also have seen quite a few small-sized blades in long Bali scabbards.

I believe that the wooden cecekahan hilt does look appropriate for the scabbard; I guess it will also look better with the short blade when drawn from the scabbard...

Regards,
Kai

rasdan · 12th June 2017, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Rasdan,
I believe that the wooden cecekahan hilt does look appropriate for the scabbard; I guess it will also look better with the short blade when drawn from the scabbard...

Regards,
Kai

Hi Kai,

This is indeed the case. I asked the dealer to ask the mranggi to make the hilt about 15 cm high. The height is correct, but the base of the hilt was made thinner that is lacks the "fat" look of some of the usual bondolan or cekahan. I think the mranggi that made the hilt made it to feel good in hand. It also matches the blade nicely.

Jean · 12th June 2017, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

Hi Kai,

This is indeed the case. I asked the dealer to ask the mranggi to make the hilt about 15 cm high. The height is correct, but the base of the hilt was made thinner that is lacks the "fat" look of some of the usual bondolan or cekahan. I think the mranggi that made the hilt made it to feel good in hand. It also matches the blade nicely.

IMO the hilt size should be not only proportioned to the sampir but also to the blade length and as a personal rule of thumb the hilt size (excluding the uwer) should not exceed one third of the blade length. In your case the blade length is about 35.5 cm (14") so the hilt size should not exceed about 12 cm instead of 15, it would appear obvious if you had shown the blade to us....
I attach the pic of a nice blade with a well-proportioned hilt IMHO.
Regards

rasdan · 13th June 2017, 12:23 PM

Hi Jean, I agree with your ratio. It is just that although this current hilt is taller, the base of it is narrower than normal bondolan. So it has some effect to the overall look.

12th June 2017, 11:29 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Matching Balinese keris sheath and hilt Hi guys, Last year I ordered a new Balinese kekandikan sheath and cekahan hilt from two different dealers in Lombok for one of my Balinese keris. I was told the sheath is timoho. I forgot to ask the type of wood for the hilt. Probably timoho as well. Since the hilt was made at a different time without the sheath, it looks like it is a bit small for the kekandikan. I have a new (that was made to look old) gold plated metal locengan hilt that is a perfect fit for the kekandikan sheath in terms of size. However I would prefer to use the wooden hilt due to "originality" purposes. My aim is I wanted the setup to be period correct to at least the 19th century. I have browsed through some old picture of Balinese wearing keris, but I cannot found a picture of a keris worn with a kekandikan sheath and cekahan hilt. However, ample examples of the setup can be found in Mr. Lalu Djelenga's book, Keris di Lombok. This makes me think that the setup is probably new. My question, is it correct to use cekahan hilt with a kekandikan sheath in the old times? Anybody have an old picture of this setup? Finally, the blade that is going to be fitted in this sheath is a Balinese blade that looks like a Javanese keris i.e relatively shorter and smaller compared with an average Balinese keris. The entire setup is about 30 inch long and the blade is just about 14 inch long. Questions is, have you seen shorter Balinese dressed with a large sheath like this? Any opinions? Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 12th June 2017 at 11:46 AM.

12th June 2017, 12:00 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	They look very beautiful! I like them! And I do not think the wooden hilt is too short. However, I am waiting to read other oppinions from more knowledgeable people as to whether they are in style with the Balinese tradition. Regards, Marius PS: Can you show us the blade please? Last edited by mariusgmioc; 12th June 2017 at 02:26 PM.

12th June 2017, 03:42 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I can't really tell if the cecekahan hilt is too short or not, but it does not immediately look odd when i view it in the photos. Just personally i prefer the ensemble with the metal gerantiman hilt. I cannot answer your question about the legitimacy of this pairing you desire in the 19th century. I can say that i personally do own an unusually short Bali keris dressed i a sheath that is much longer than the blade. I believe if one is going to wear ones keris is what we see as the standard Balinese style (to the back with the hilt riding up over the shoulder) that the sheath must be long enough to make this positioning possible regardless of the length of the blade. Last edited by David; 12th June 2017 at 05:37 PM.

12th June 2017, 04:56 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	According to Lalu Djelenga, the cecekahan or cekah solas (11 notches) hilts were worn by soldiers and are matching with batun poh style scabbards. Your metal hilt is in gerantiman style IMO which ideally matches with kekandikan krisses but from the pics it looks a bit oversized as compared to the sampir. Regards

13th June 2017, 12:23 PM	#11
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Jean, I agree with your ratio. It is just that although this current hilt is taller, the base of it is narrower than normal bondolan. So it has some effect to the overall look.