history of the yoyo as a weapon

[zamboanga]

hi forum members,

i have read and heard stories about the yoyo as a weapon in older times. most sources in the net attribute its martial origin to the philippines. i even read once (ripley's?) that it used to be 1 foot in diameter in size with a 20 feet long cord. the wielder supposedly waited in a tree and flung the weapon on unsuspecting prey or enemy passing below. has anyone seen or have in possession this unique weapon? what tribes could have used it?

[BluErf]

Hmmm... that's interesting. The target will have to walk precisely underneath the person with his yoyo... and what if the yoyo guy misses? I bet he can't just jump off and run... His chosen victim could have a bow or blowpipe to shoot him with and I think he'll have a hard time dodging while on the tree. Worse... the target calls for help and a whole bunch of angry men surrounds the tree and shoot the yoyo guy.

Hey, doesn't that sound like paintball -- someone climbs up a tree to snipe on the opponent team and gets discovered. *splat splat splat splat splat*

[ariel]

For a demonstration of this technique, please rent James Bond's "Octopussy"
Seeing Maude Adams is a bonus......

[fearn]

Argh, somewhere I read a demolition of the idea of a yoyo weapon--I wish I could remember where it was! Oh well, one of these days....

Anyway, the central thesis of the demolition was that there's a big problem with a yoyo as a weapon. That problem is that it slows as it reaches the end of its string, which is precisely the opposite of what you want a good weapon to do (i.e. hit maximum velocity at the end).

The other thing is that if you bounce a yoyo off of someone, it's hard to recover, which negates the utility of having that well-balanced spinning thing on the end of a line.

It is quite possible to use a weighted rope or chain--witness the manriki-kusari, the suruchin, bolos, and all their relatives. You can also use faster recovery weapon such as a meteor hammer, which is basically a weight at the end of a 3-4 m line. But if you want to swat someone with a yoyo, I think generally you let it run out and swing it.

Oh well, I'm sure the next person on will have a sample of a filipino combat yoyo from the mountain tribes , but that's my take

F

[moose]

Here's a reference. Nothing really new.
http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/u...ML/002180.html

The twisted cord was I believe so that it did not slow down but actually increased at the end. Kind of a crack the whip motion.
I've also heard of the large ones. I believe they even had spikes on them.

Here's a link to a book about the more obscure Philippine Martial weapons. It doesn't mention the yo-yo, but if anyone knew more about it, A. Pat Marinas would be a good candidate.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...034519-6521728

I could swear I read something about it that he had wrote but a 1/2 hour search of my favorites and the web came up empty. I'll try again later.

I would also like to hear from any fellow forumites if they have information on this topic.

moose

[moose]

did a little more searching.

If you punch Pedro Flores into google you'll bring up more stuff.
Here's one which references it as a weapon.

http://inventors.about.com/od/hispan...dro_Flores.htm

moose

[fearn]

mmm-hmmm.

Well, I've got 20' of rope somewhere. Anyone want to help me build a yoyo big enough to hold it? If that works, we can put some sharp edges and studs on it...

Come on! Please, think this through! Start by putting 10' of line on a butterfly yoyo (they're more forgiving) and see if you can make the bloody thing work. I'd recommend going to an upstairs window and seeing if you can make it yo out the window. If you can, work up to 20'.

Once you can get a yoyo to go 20' and come back (round the world? Walking the dog? On flat ground? In a combat setting???), then you can add studs and edges. Remember, if the yoyo gets knocked to one side or isn't perfectly balanced, the edges rub against the rope.

And you have to catch the thing on the rebound, when it comes back to your hand about as fast as it left it.

And the studs and sharp edges have to be perfectly balanced, so that it will spin evenly and rewind.

This isn't to say that they're weren't weighted rope weapons, but this "battle yo" simply doesn't make sense.

F

[zamboanga]

here is a replica of a philippine battle yoyo sold online at: http://www.primitiveweapons.com/products/misc.html

[fearn]

Well, apparently I stand corrected, although I'll note that it's a non returning weapon (see description below). Perhaps a couple of us should buy them and try them out in test drops?

" Another weapon of the Philippines the battle tree yo-yo has been in use for 500+ years. It is dropped from trees (lucky that it does not return). Comes with History & Cord. Comes Painted or Stained (your choice)"

I can see it now, the Ethnographic Edged Weapons and battle yoyo forum...

F

[mmontoro]

Here's a link to a Ti yo-yo made by Tom Anderson. Tom is a respected knifemaker who also makes more than a few unusual items from Ti.

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthread...?Number=422573

[zamboanga]

martialartsplanet.com has a thread on this topic. almost similar discussions on the pros and cons of the yoyo as a weapon. one quote caught my eye, though:

"If it works, it's Arnis. If it doesn't, it's Karate."

[Radu Transylvanicus]

Zamboanga, I found your match : Go Go Yubari (Chiaki Kuriyama) from Kill Bill vol. 1 ... what do you say ?

[Radu Transylvanicus]

There are also mentions of ancient Hawaiians doing things similar to yo-yo , basically o torpedo shaped stone club tied to a cord that seems they were wieldieng pretty good , something between a ,,bollas,, (trip weapon) and a killer yo-yo... Be back later with nomenclature and eventually pics on this one as it is late and its been a looong day!

[fearn]

Hi Radu,

You're right--the Hawaiian weapon is called a pikoi, and there are several in the collection of the Bishop Museum. Basically, it's a weight on the end of a line--supposedly it's used to trap or trip, but it looks similar to...

...the meteor hammer, a weighted line in Chinese martial arts, which might or might not have a tubular handle on the rope (i.e. one hand to guide, through which the rope moves, while the other hand controls the length of the rope.

...there's also a rope dart, in which the weight is replaced by a sharpened dart, and the dragon claw, where the weight is replaced by four curved, springy, metal claws.

There might also be an African weapon like the rope dart, although I have no information about tribe, name, or use.

Note that none of these are used as a yoyo. The Chinese weapons (shown in John Sanchez, Flexible Weapons) are used for linear strikes. To strike with the weapon, assume the following position: Off-hand holds the rope coiled, the other holds the weight on a few feet of line. Swing the weight in a vertical circle counterclockwise, and whip the weight out underhand, letting the line go loose with the other hand (don't let go of the end of the line!). After the weight hits the target (or misses), grab the rope with both hands, and pull it back rapidly, recoiling the rope as you go.

Basically, it's the analog of a repeater rifle. Rather than having a weight or dart that you throw once and lose, you can pull it back and use it again and again. Supposedly, if you're skillful, you get pretty fast, you can do all sorts of weird angle shots. You can, of course, hold it short and use it as a flail.

Sanchez's Flexible Weapons is a good guide to the use of flexible weapons in general.

F

[johnlycos]

Zamboanga,

I found an answer for you. Here is a video of some people using the yo-yo as a weapon. They make it look like there is some unknown martial art behind it because it's a very good demonstration of using all the parts effectively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5Pwg4Bhbw

Mabuhay to Mindanao!

[Lew]

An off shoot of the dreaded tree yo-yo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQmEXYCJtoA

Lew

[ariel]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

An off shoot of the dreaded tree yo-yo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQmEXYCJtoA

Lew

Gosh, Lew, what sites have you been checking?
Love it! Hope you do not show it to your students

[fearn]

Gotta love those solid steel yoyos and their uncuttable strings. Talk about Wham-O

[ausjulius]

i woudl have to say i would totaly disagree with the wild claim that the yo-yo originates in the philipines..
these toys have exsisted in europe for several thousand years aswell as in the middle east and were common all along , in the imttle dages they can be seen ,
and as far back as the acient greeks there is clear evidence as to their use,
ther eis a greek sculpture with a child with a yoyo... and some roman and greek mosaics picturing them being used .
as to them being used as a weapon in the philipines , maybe so , but this items is hardly related to the returning toy yoyo ,
still i do wounder if anyone would have a picture of a genuine article of these item,
also i wounder what sence it would be to use,, as if you are up a tree and waiting , then why not have a bow or a spear or blowgun,
as they all shurly will kill with much more effect and accuracy and tals kill much larger game..

also,, then why not have a net and a club and be done with it ?

[Bill M]

Evidence of yoy-yo as a weapon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP0tUvi7NpE

[mross]

This type of thing seems to be popular. In a non-returning sort of way. Check out slung shot and monkey fist (knot).

Here's a link for a quick description;

http://upsurvival.tripod.com/id24.html