Archaic kalis gamble

Sajen · 23rd April 2014, 12:26 AM

Just have won this archaic kalis/kris by ebay, the pictures are very blurry so this is maybe a gamble special because the blade seems to have some corrosion but alone the handle is worth what I have paid for it. The seller don't want to ship to Germany so it will be shipped to the sister of my wife who live in the States. Next gamble will be to get it to Germany without problems.

Also when the pictures are bad feel free to comment, I will post better pictures when I have received it.

russel · 23rd April 2014, 02:18 AM

I was going to make a similar gamble on this one, but you beat me to it! I think it will be a good catch. I look forward to seeing better images when you receive it.

Cheers, Russel

DaveS · 23rd April 2014, 02:24 AM

Detlef: Definitly a good example of a "transition kris". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a twist-core...........Dave.

Sajen · 23rd April 2014, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russel

I was going to make a similar gamble on this one, but you beat me to it! I think it will be a good catch. I look forward to seeing better images when you receive it.

Cheers, Russel

Hello Russel,

when you have followed the auction you will know that first there don't have been a "buy-it-now" option. I have contacted the seller and have given exactly the offer he have added later. Soon as the kris is by the sister of my wife I will ask her husband for some better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

ThePepperSkull · 23rd April 2014, 02:57 AM

Dang! I missed a good one. Congrats, Detlef! I look forward to seeing you clean that blade up and showing us what's underneath.

Sajen · 23rd April 2014, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

Detlef: Definitly a good example of a "transition kris". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a twist-core...........Dave.

Hello Dave,

thank you!

And I have the same thoughts like you, there could be the possibility that it is a twist-core blade. Would be a great extra.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 23rd April 2014, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Dang! I missed a good one. Congrats, Detlef! I look forward to seeing you clean that blade up and showing us what's underneath.

Thank you as well! Will need some time until I have it in my hands but I hope that better pictures will us show more.

Regards,
Detlef

kino · 23rd April 2014, 05:06 AM

Good catch. The blade shows signs of corrosion, hopefully it's just the bad photography. The pommel looks intact which is great. Show some photos when it all cleaned up. It's still a nice sword, I would love to have it regardless.

Sajen · 23rd April 2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Good catch. The blade shows signs of corrosion, hopefully it's just the bad photography. The pommel looks intact which is great. Show some photos when it all cleaned up. It's still a nice sword, I would love to have it regardless.

Thank you, the corrosion and to get it to Germany are my biggest concerns!

Like said, will post pictures when it is in the hand of my family.

Regards,
Detlef

mross · 30th April 2014, 04:47 PM

Man, how did I miss that one?! Great snag. I would lay odds it's not a gamble at all. In fact I would be surprised if it was not a twist core. Very good score.

Sajen · 30th April 2014, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Man, how did I miss that one?! Great snag. I would lay odds it's not a gamble at all. In fact I would be surprised if it was not a twist core. Very good score.

Thank you Mike,

was relative new listed, so you maybe missed it!

I also have the hope that it is maybe a twist core. The gamble is to get it to Germany and that the blade isn't deep pitted by corrosion but the money I have paid is worth this gamble!

Regards,
Detlef

VVV · 1st May 2014, 02:02 PM

Congratulations Detlef!

I also noticed it when it was posted and then it disappeared.
You are absolutely the master of convincing eBay-sellers to stop the sale and let you have it for next to nothing.

Michael

Sajen · 1st May 2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Congratulations Detlef!

I also noticed it when it was posted and then it disappeared.
You are absolutely the master of convincing eBay-sellers to stop the sale and let you have it for next to nothing.

Michael

Hello Michael,

thank you!

But it was a little bit different, the seller has added a "buy-it-now" option in his listing which I have noticed some hours later at the next morning (time difference) but have used it direct. And frankly said it is the only way for me to get such a piece by my limited finacial situation. And we still have to see in which condition this kris is in real by better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 6th May 2014, 10:27 PM

Have received some better pictures from sister and brother in law. Handle intact and blade have corrosion but not to bad. But can't see any hints that the blade is twistcore.

Battara · 7th May 2014, 01:09 AM

Be easier to tell once the blade is cleaned and etched. Be very careful - I see 2 cracks in the blade!

Rick · 7th May 2014, 04:45 AM

There is definitely an inlay down the center of the blade .
These edge cracks are interesting; the iron is perhaps tired ?

kai · 7th May 2014, 08:38 AM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

Have received some better pictures from sister and brother in law. Handle intact and blade have corrosion but not to bad. But can't see any hints that the blade is twistcore.

Congrats, you certainly did very well!

I also believe that there will be no twistcore - usually it should be discernible with this amount of corrosion. The remaining chance of twistcore would be if this blade (including fullers) got intensively buffed before long-time storage and the closed pores in the iron preventing the corrosion to show the pattern (can't see any hints though). Blade is definitely laminated, of course.

I hope you'll receive this in due time. I would certainly like to see the laminations after etching - it may help to verify wether this is an archaic kris or a later revival example. Anyway, the scrollwork at the base of the blade is very good quality.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 7th May 2014, 08:49 AM

Hello Jose,

Quote:

Be very careful - I see 2 cracks in the blade!

Unless one wants to put this piece into real use, I don't think those cracks will be much of a problem; there are also forging flaws from welding the sandwich construction. The blade looks sturdy enough though; IMHO Detlef just needs to neutralize well after etching...

Regards,
Kai

kai · 7th May 2014, 08:54 AM

Hello Rick,

Quote:

There is definitely an inlay down the center of the blade .

Any silver inlay seems to be gone. I assume you mean the pamor cores sandwiched onto the central piece of steel?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 7th May 2014, 12:17 PM

Thank you Jose and Rick,

agree that a possible twistcore will be visible when the blade is cleaned and etched. The cracks at the edge I have noticed as well. Could be a forging matter/mistake IMHO.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 7th May 2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Jose,

Unless one wants to put this piece into real use, I don't think those cracks will be much of a problem; there are also forging flaws from welding the sandwich construction. The blade looks sturdy enough though; IMHO Detlef just needs to neutralize well after etching...

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

agree with you! Don't think that the blade is very destabilized by the cracks!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 7th May 2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

Congrats, you certainly did very well!

I also believe that there will be no twistcore - usually it should be discernible with this amount of corrosion. The remaining chance of twistcore would be if this blade (including fullers) got intensively buffed before long-time storage and the closed pores in the iron preventing the corrosion to show the pattern (can't see any hints though). Blade is definitely laminated, of course.

I hope you'll receive this in due time. I would certainly like to see the laminations after etching - it may help to verify wether this is an archaic kris or a later revival example. Anyway, the scrollwork at the base of the blade is very good quality.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

thank you! Will need a little bit time, the family in the States just have changed the room and don't have so much time in the moment.
And agree with you about the scrollwork, much better as by the other example I have.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 7th May 2014, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I assume you mean the pamor cores sandwiched onto the central piece of steel?

I understand it also like this.

Rick · 7th May 2014, 03:17 PM

Yes, that's what I meant .
Those cracks make me wonder if the core material was a bit overworked during forging .

mross · 9th May 2014, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yes, that's what I meant .
Those cracks make me wonder if the core material was a bit overworked during forging .

That's the usual reason for certain material, wootz, meteoric iron etc. Another possibility is a failed quench, this happens quite a bit in a water quench.
I'm really intrested in this sword. Looks like a nice one.

imas560 · 9th May 2014, 11:50 PM

Love this type of thread. Is very exciting.
Sajen if you don't mind me asking: what is going through your mind when you're looking at the photos of the item with your family in the States, in regards to steps you'll take when you get the item in your hands.
You've done some nice restorations so you have expertise in this area, you've got some great advice on what to look out for and what to be careful with, so I'm thinking you most probably are shaping a plan for when you receive the item.

Sajen · 9th May 2014, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

That's the usual reason for certain material, wootz, meteoric iron etc. Another possibility is a failed quench, this happens quite a bit in a water quench.
I'm really intrested in this sword. Looks like a nice one.

Hello Mross,

could be the reason for the cracks. I am very curious what Alan think about this cracks. Can't wait to hold it in my hands to clean and etch the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 10th May 2014, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imas560

Love this type of thread. Is very exciting.
Sajen if you don't mind me asking: what is going through your mind when you're looking at the photos of the item with your family in the States, in regards to steps you'll take when you get the item in your hands.
You've done some nice restorations so you have expertise in this area, you've got some great advice on what to look out for and what to be careful with, so I'm thinking you most probably are shaping a plan for when you receive the item.

Hello Imas,

yes, of course I have a plan!

First I will clean carefully the pommel and give it some oil. The blade will need to be cleaned from corrosion. After this I will polish the blade and will give it an etch.
And I have seen on the pictures that the grip binding down under the pommel isn't original anymore. I wish to know how this sort of binding will be done, would be nice to restore this binding. Maybe someone know how to do this??

Great would be a scabbard for this kris, maybe I find a way to let work one in Indonesia. Or I have one day the great luck to find one day an old one which I can let rework for this blade. On the other hand will look this kris also good at the wall display without scabbard together with my other kris I have, so a scabbard will have time!

Sajen · 1st November 2014, 06:21 PM

I also have received this kris and like said in the previous post there is still a lot work with this kris. The pommel from supposedly hippo ivory (is this a common material by Moro kris?) was like thought before not firm attached and the upper part of the binding was glued, so I opened carefully the binding and take the pommel of to clean and oil it. The blade has received a first cleaning, until now I can't see any evidence of twistcore. The blade will receice now a polishing and etching. The biggest concern will be to add a new binding in the same way it was originally since I don't know how to do this. It would be great when a member who know how this can be done would share his knowledge. Here some first pictures.

Battara · 2nd November 2014, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

The pommel from supposedly hippo ivory (is this a common material by Moro kris?)

Actually.......no. Usually it's either elephant ivory or dugong ivory.

By the way - nice work. Now for the etching to bring that nice twist core.......

23rd April 2014, 12:26 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Archaic kalis gamble Just have won this archaic kalis/kris by ebay, the pictures are very blurry so this is maybe a gamble special because the blade seems to have some corrosion but alone the handle is worth what I have paid for it. The seller don't want to ship to Germany so it will be shipped to the sister of my wife who live in the States. Next gamble will be to get it to Germany without problems. Also when the pictures are bad feel free to comment, I will post better pictures when I have received it. Attached Images

6th May 2014, 10:27 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Have received some better pictures from sister and brother in law. Handle intact and blade have corrosion but not to bad. But can't see any hints that the blade is twistcore. Attached Images

7th May 2014, 04:45 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	There is definitely an inlay down the center of the blade . These edge cracks are interesting; the iron is perhaps tired ? Attached Images

1st November 2014, 06:21 PM	#29
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	I also have received this kris and like said in the previous post there is still a lot work with this kris. The pommel from supposedly hippo ivory (is this a common material by Moro kris?) was like thought before not firm attached and the upper part of the binding was glued, so I opened carefully the binding and take the pommel of to clean and oil it. The blade has received a first cleaning, until now I can't see any evidence of twistcore. The blade will receice now a polishing and etching. The biggest concern will be to add a new binding in the same way it was originally since I don't know how to do this. It would be great when a member who know how this can be done would share his knowledge. Here some first pictures. Attached Images

23rd April 2014, 02:18 AM	#2
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	I was going to make a similar gamble on this one, but you beat me to it! I think it will be a good catch. I look forward to seeing better images when you receive it. Cheers, Russel

23rd April 2014, 02:24 AM	#3
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Detlef: Definitly a good example of a "transition kris". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a twist-core...........Dave.

23rd April 2014, 02:57 AM	#5
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Dang! I missed a good one. Congrats, Detlef! I look forward to seeing you clean that blade up and showing us what's underneath.

23rd April 2014, 05:06 AM	#8
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,003	Good catch. The blade shows signs of corrosion, hopefully it's just the bad photography. The pommel looks intact which is great. Show some photos when it all cleaned up. It's still a nice sword, I would love to have it regardless.

30th April 2014, 04:47 PM	#10
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Man, how did I miss that one?! Great snag. I would lay odds it's not a gamble at all. In fact I would be surprised if it was not a twist core. Very good score.

1st May 2014, 02:02 PM	#12
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Congratulations Detlef! I also noticed it when it was posted and then it disappeared. You are absolutely the master of convincing eBay-sellers to stop the sale and let you have it for next to nothing. Michael

7th May 2014, 01:09 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Be easier to tell once the blade is cleaned and etched. Be very careful - I see 2 cracks in the blade!

7th May 2014, 12:17 PM	#20
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you Jose and Rick, agree that a possible twistcore will be visible when the blade is cleaned and etched. The cracks at the edge I have noticed as well. Could be a forging matter/mistake IMHO. Regards, Detlef

7th May 2014, 03:17 PM	#24
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Yes, that's what I meant . Those cracks make me wonder if the core material was a bit overworked during forging .

9th May 2014, 11:50 PM	#26
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Love this type of thread. Is very exciting. Sajen if you don't mind me asking: what is going through your mind when you're looking at the photos of the item with your family in the States, in regards to steps you'll take when you get the item in your hands. You've done some nice restorations so you have expertise in this area, you've got some great advice on what to look out for and what to be careful with, so I'm thinking you most probably are shaping a plan for when you receive the item.