Ebay fraud alert

BluErf · 18th March 2005, 02:41 PM

These are live auctions, I know, but I think people have to be alerted.

The original seller's post:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

The really suspicious post:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...309003684&rd=1

nechesh · 18th March 2005, 03:14 PM

Nice one Blu! That's got to be one of the most blatant examples i've yet to see, actually running concurrent with the real auction! I think sometimes it should be acceptable to post running auction like in a case like this. Good work.

Ian · 18th March 2005, 03:17 PM

Pure scam on the second post. I have dealt with the real seller and he has been very reliable in the past. The second post comes from China with an eBay enrollment date of yesterday and zero history.

BluErf -- Have you notified eBay of this fraud?

Rick · 18th March 2005, 03:26 PM

Gentlemen , Ebay fraud alerts are encouraged here .
The only caveat is be absolutely sure it is fraud before you post an alert .
Notification of Ebay should be done by members themselves .

Congratulations on spotting them Guys !

nechesh · 18th March 2005, 09:10 PM

Apparently our friend Mr. Fortune is quite ambitious. Here's a list of his other auctions. I can instantly see 2 others lifted from Derreck and i suspect that he owns none of the items he is attempting to sell:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgoodQ5ffortune888
Now that's pretty ballsy if you ask me!

Rick · 18th March 2005, 09:18 PM

Has anyone notified ebay yet ?
I see they're still up .

nechesh · 18th March 2005, 09:53 PM

Yeah Rick, but i only sent them a list of 4 auction numbers, since these were all auction i know belong to Derreck. But i seriously suspect ALL 9 of his auctions are the same deal.

Rick · 18th March 2005, 10:09 PM

I contacted Derreck directly .

I'm afraid we may be entering a new wave of fraud auctions all over ebay .
There is qiute a bit of chatter in the ebay security forums about this .

Fortunately most of these *Sellers*

are from mainland China so seller location can help in identifying frauds .

Mare Rosu · 18th March 2005, 10:15 PM

All nine items are now canceled by eBay.
Someone need to be thanked for this action.

LabanTayo · 19th March 2005, 05:01 AM

last year, i had someone from china email through ebay trying to sell moro kris's. the funny thing is, the pics were from federico's site. i passed it along to federico. i never heard back from that person.
blatant ignorance.....

Ian · 19th March 2005, 05:41 AM

Thanks for keeping such a watchful eye.

Federico · 19th March 2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

last year, i had someone from china email through ebay trying to sell moro kris's. the funny thing is, the pics were from federico's site. i passed it along to federico. i never heard back from that person.
blatant ignorance.....

What got me once, was one person tried to sell me a sword with pics from my site as well. I can get the idea of trying to con someone with stolen pics, but I thought it hilarious they were trying to con the person they stole the pics from.

Radu Transylvanicus · 14th April 2005, 08:59 AM

Is really ,,Made in China,, synonimous with disaster in every E-bay transaction ? Should we absolutely refrain from buying such or just a simple ,,caveat emptor,, ... aside from being politically incorect can someone tell me something on this matter ?

BluErf · 14th April 2005, 02:30 PM

Yes, the Chinese are famed for faking everything, from antique terracotta figurines to teapots to milk powder to eggs (yes!!! fake eggs!!!! sold for consumption, to the detriment of the consumers' health).

I don't trust any antiques that comes out of China. Its 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999%
fake.

Rick · 14th April 2005, 03:21 PM

I concur Blu , as far as I know China has a very strict law against the exportation of ANY antiques .

Andrew · 14th April 2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radu Transylvanicus

Is really ,,Made in China,, synonimous with disaster in every E-bay transaction ? Should we absolutely refrain from buying such or just a simple ,,caveat emptor,, ... aside from being politically incorect can someone tell me something on this matter ?

Good question, Radu. Unfortunately, several factors conspire against even the most sophisticated antique collector that wants to purchase Chinese items through eBay (or even non-Chinese items from Chinese sellers). Ebay is a notoriously difficult forum to make informed decisions regarding antiques. Accordingly, caveat emptor should be the mantra of anyone looking to buy there, regardless of where the seller is located.

Also, particularly with regard to swords and antique items, many, many Chinese sellers have built an apparantly deserved reputation for peddling fakes on line via "private" auctions with exhorbitant shipping prices. Scott Rodell, a moderator on SFI and international Kung Fu instructor/dealer in antique Chinese arms wrote an article about his visit to one of the many factories in mainland China pumping out fake antiques. Thus, the fraud is well documented.

Finally, as others have pointed out, it is a rare genuine Chinese antique that will be sold from mainland China due to strict laws prohibiting it.

Yes, I'm sure there are legitimate Chinese vendors on eBay. However, this is likely a case of many bad apples spoiling the bunch. I've purchased a few swords from the Chinese eBay sellers, and all have been garbage. On the other hand, the few items I've purchased from Chinese sellers located outside of Mainland China have been the genuine article.

I just don't buy from sellers located in China, as the odds are clearly against me.

Best regards,
Andrew

Radu Transylvanicus · 15th April 2005, 07:38 AM

,,CAVEAT EMPTYOR POCKETS,,
So far sounds like an unanimous Forum call to boycot all mainland China E-bay sellers and hitherto artifuckts ... The very bad news is that India started to plagiate antiques in a same manner lately , satellite retailers of mass producers like EC21 (www.ec21.net/co/a/arms) sell their ,,honestly documented,, pieces on a ,,grey market,, with scaterred retail slogans like : Ancient Mughal dagger 1700`s , Indo-Persia ... and somewhere thrown in ,,I am not a certified antique expert but this stuff looks really old to me, an old reputed collector give me the information,, while the dont even bother to change the pictures from what the maker has on its website ... so pathetic and annoying ...
Also, lots of fakes roam the Turkish bazaars but they didnt make it to E-Bay yet ... Again : ,,CAVEAT EMPTYOR POCKETS,,

ariel · 15th April 2005, 01:21 PM

Radu,
You ARE funny!

tom hyle · 15th April 2005, 01:53 PM

Hey, Radu, do you know of any websites of the Chinese manufacturers (other than Chen/Hanwei, who make swords, not fakes)? They may be less open; the "aging" appears to be factory-uniform on many pieces (especially the bronze/brass, for instance). In any event, though I haven't owned any of it, the new Hindoo folded/wootz (that's the stuff that was being referred to, no?) stuff seems pretty nice to me, and is certainly openly made and sold as new by the makers; what a dealer does after that can be another matter, of course. For that matter, a lot of the Chinese stuff looks fairly nice to me, too, but my sister brought me back a "chinese trouse" from China that would've looked fine in an ebay picture, but actually has an epoxy-filled tang-gap between the scales (who knows how long the real tang is?), a plastic sheath, and a blade I fear for. (mind you, a heartfelt gift though) I have just bought a Chinese almost certainly repro. mace from someone in USA who had a pile of Chinese antiques on ebay, looking like the usual fakes, but shipping for $15, instead of $65. I keep telling them to do this; now if only the'd sell 'em shiny and/or call 'em repros......There have been some sellers out of china charging realistic shipping rates, BTW. Still $20 or $30 of course, and the swords weren't $.99, but also $20 and $30. I'd probably rather buy a new Chinese practice sword or farm sword, than one made for the repro./fake market, anyway, but those aren't as readily available over here. I once worked with a person whose take on the whole antique market was that selling real antiques is for fools, and fakes are where the money's at....it was interesting in its own exasperating way.

BSMStar · 15th April 2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

shipping for $15, instead of $65... and the swords weren't $.99

You got to love a $0.99 sword that has a shipping cost of $249.00 (there is one on eBay now). I wonder if very many people get "hit" by the "fine print" on these? I don't even bother to look for Japanese swords there any more... you would think it is affecting eBay's business (not to mention reputation).

Conogre · 15th April 2005, 07:22 PM

I've purchased several items from the site in India, and to be fair, have to relate my own experiences with them.
All pieces that I purchased were clearly listed as newly made and were of excellent quality, and with shipping to the US faster than many sellers IN the US with one exception.
They ran two auctions on sets of armor with Muslim chiseling, one listed as about 50 years old and out of my price range, with the second being for 3 sets being newly made out of stainless steel and MUCH less expensive.....I won one of the three sets offered on the second auction and didn't hear from them for almost two months.
When I finally e-mailed them, they were extremely apologetic, said something about cleaning the rust off (stainless steel?) and that my purchase would be here ASAP, which ended up being by courrier in about 14 days.
To my delight and surprise, they'd obviously over sold the 2nd auction and had replaced it with the older (and more elaborate) set in non-stainless for exactly the same price, with a substantial reduction is shipping as well.....for $156.00, including shipping, I have no complaint at all
I HAVE seen some auctions stating that they have added khoftgari or inlaying to an older piece, but there were never any claims as to the exact age of the original piece, other than it was NOT newly made.
What buyers of their wares may do is entirely a different matter, with my suspicion being that it's probably American re-sellers that need to be watched.
Mike

18th March 2005, 02:41 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ebay fraud alert These are live auctions, I know, but I think people have to be alerted. The original seller's post: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true The really suspicious post: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...309003684&rd=1

18th March 2005, 03:26 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Fraud Alerts Gentlemen , Ebay fraud alerts are encouraged here . The only caveat is be absolutely sure it is fraud before you post an alert . Notification of Ebay should be done by members themselves . Congratulations on spotting them Guys !

18th March 2005, 10:15 PM	#9
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	GONE All nine items are now canceled by eBay. Someone need to be thanked for this action.

19th March 2005, 05:41 AM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Good job guys. Thanks for keeping such a watchful eye.

15th April 2005, 07:38 AM	#17
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	,,CAVEAT EMPTYOR POCKETS,, So far sounds like an unanimous Forum call to boycot all mainland China E-bay sellers and hitherto artifuckts ... The very bad news is that India started to plagiate antiques in a same manner lately , satellite retailers of mass producers like EC21 (www.ec21.net/co/a/arms) sell their ,,honestly documented,, pieces on a ,,grey market,, with scaterred retail slogans like : Ancient Mughal dagger 1700`s , Indo-Persia ... and somewhere thrown in ,,I am not a certified antique expert but this stuff looks really old to me, an old reputed collector give me the information,, while the dont even bother to change the pictures from what the maker has on its website ... so pathetic and annoying ... Also, lots of fakes roam the Turkish bazaars but they didnt make it to E-Bay yet ... Again : ,,CAVEAT EMPTYOR POCKETS,, Last edited by Radu Transylvanicus; 15th April 2005 at 07:54 AM.

18th March 2005, 03:14 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Nice one Blu! That's got to be one of the most blatant examples i've yet to see, actually running concurrent with the real auction! I think sometimes it should be acceptable to post running auction like in a case like this. Good work.

18th March 2005, 03:17 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Pure scam on the second post. I have dealt with the real seller and he has been very reliable in the past. The second post comes from China with an eBay enrollment date of yesterday and zero history. BluErf -- Have you notified eBay of this fraud?

18th March 2005, 09:10 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Apparently our friend Mr. Fortune is quite ambitious. Here's a list of his other auctions. I can instantly see 2 others lifted from Derreck and i suspect that he owns none of the items he is attempting to sell: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgoodQ5ffortune888 Now that's pretty ballsy if you ask me!

18th March 2005, 09:18 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Has anyone notified ebay yet ? I see they're still up .

18th March 2005, 09:53 PM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Yeah Rick, but i only sent them a list of 4 auction numbers, since these were all auction i know belong to Derreck. But i seriously suspect ALL 9 of his auctions are the same deal.

18th March 2005, 10:09 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I contacted Derreck directly . I'm afraid we may be entering a new wave of fraud auctions all over ebay . There is qiute a bit of chatter in the ebay security forums about this . Fortunately most of these Sellers are from mainland China so seller location can help in identifying frauds .

19th March 2005, 05:01 AM	#10
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	last year, i had someone from china email through ebay trying to sell moro kris's. the funny thing is, the pics were from federico's site. i passed it along to federico. i never heard back from that person. blatant ignorance.....

14th April 2005, 08:59 AM	#13
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Is really ,,Made in China,, synonimous with disaster in every E-bay transaction ? Should we absolutely refrain from buying such or just a simple ,,caveat emptor,, ... aside from being politically incorect can someone tell me something on this matter ?

14th April 2005, 02:30 PM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Yes, the Chinese are famed for faking everything, from antique terracotta figurines to teapots to milk powder to eggs (yes!!! fake eggs!!!! sold for consumption, to the detriment of the consumers' health). I don't trust any antiques that comes out of China. Its 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999% fake.

14th April 2005, 03:21 PM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I concur Blu , as far as I know China has a very strict law against the exportation of ANY antiques .

15th April 2005, 01:21 PM	#18
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Radu, You ARE funny!

15th April 2005, 01:53 PM	#19
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Hey, Radu, do you know of any websites of the Chinese manufacturers (other than Chen/Hanwei, who make swords, not fakes)? They may be less open; the "aging" appears to be factory-uniform on many pieces (especially the bronze/brass, for instance). In any event, though I haven't owned any of it, the new Hindoo folded/wootz (that's the stuff that was being referred to, no?) stuff seems pretty nice to me, and is certainly openly made and sold as new by the makers; what a dealer does after that can be another matter, of course. For that matter, a lot of the Chinese stuff looks fairly nice to me, too, but my sister brought me back a "chinese trouse" from China that would've looked fine in an ebay picture, but actually has an epoxy-filled tang-gap between the scales (who knows how long the real tang is?), a plastic sheath, and a blade I fear for. (mind you, a heartfelt gift though) I have just bought a Chinese almost certainly repro. mace from someone in USA who had a pile of Chinese antiques on ebay, looking like the usual fakes, but shipping for $15, instead of $65. I keep telling them to do this; now if only the'd sell 'em shiny and/or call 'em repros......There have been some sellers out of china charging realistic shipping rates, BTW. Still $20 or $30 of course, and the swords weren't $.99, but also $20 and $30. I'd probably rather buy a new Chinese practice sword or farm sword, than one made for the repro./fake market, anyway, but those aren't as readily available over here. I once worked with a person whose take on the whole antique market was that selling real antiques is for fools, and fakes are where the money's at....it was interesting in its own exasperating way. Last edited by tom hyle; 15th April 2005 at 03:39 PM.

15th April 2005, 07:22 PM	#21
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I've purchased several items from the site in India, and to be fair, have to relate my own experiences with them. All pieces that I purchased were clearly listed as newly made and were of excellent quality, and with shipping to the US faster than many sellers IN the US with one exception. They ran two auctions on sets of armor with Muslim chiseling, one listed as about 50 years old and out of my price range, with the second being for 3 sets being newly made out of stainless steel and MUCH less expensive.....I won one of the three sets offered on the second auction and didn't hear from them for almost two months. When I finally e-mailed them, they were extremely apologetic, said something about cleaning the rust off (stainless steel?) and that my purchase would be here ASAP, which ended up being by courrier in about 14 days. To my delight and surprise, they'd obviously over sold the 2nd auction and had replaced it with the older (and more elaborate) set in non-stainless for exactly the same price, with a substantial reduction is shipping as well.....for $156.00, including shipping, I have no complaint at all I HAVE seen some auctions stating that they have added khoftgari or inlaying to an older piece, but there were never any claims as to the exact age of the original piece, other than it was NOT newly made. What buyers of their wares may do is entirely a different matter, with my suspicion being that it's probably American re-sellers that need to be watched. Mike Attached Images