Early dagger

corrado26 · 7th March 2019, 06:17 PM

A very old friend of mine sold me this well conserved dagger from his collection. Because of its very short ricasso and the style of its blade I think it is a piece made around 1550, but perhaps there are other opinions?
Regards
corrado26

cornelistromp · 7th March 2019, 09:15 PM

when I refer to the fig shaped pommel, norman type 63 1635-1655. this period comes across with the knob-shaped terminals at the guard.

attached a pillow sword from the same period.

best,
jasper

fernando · 7th March 2019, 09:22 PM

Very nice. Italian, maybe ?

.

fernando · 11th March 2019, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Very nice. Italian, maybe ?

.

Was this a wrong question ?

.

corrado26 · 12th March 2019, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Was this a wrong question ?

.

No, absolutely not and I think too that it is an Italian one. But in contradiction of jaspers opinion I think that this dagger is in fact earlier than 1635 because there are no siderings which have been in use later. At least is this the fact that I found in Normans book.
corrado26

cornelistromp · 14th March 2019, 04:27 PM

The safest way to date a rapier or dagger is by the shape of the pommel, this pommelshape was subject to fashion and period bound.
Norman relies with his work mainly on dated paintings and connects pommels from the paintings to specific periods.

A ring guard is not necessary for a 17th century dagger, there are many without it, see for example this dagger from 1650 (from antique trade)
This dagger is more elaborate but of the same type as the one under discussion. (pommel type 63 and a similar guard)

best,
Jasper

corrado26 · 14th March 2019, 05:54 PM

Hello Jasper,

many thanks for your further reply that made me clear what I misunderstood. What do you think about its origine? Italy?
Regards
corrado26

cornelistromp · 15th March 2019, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Hello Jasper,

many thanks for your further reply that made me clear what I misunderstood. What do you think about its origine? Italy?
Regards
corrado26

thank you , I would not say misunderstood, it's just my opinion and it's just one.
The origin is hard to say, although the shape of the guard rod is very similar to some Italian daggers, especially the all steel dagger, this pommel type is mainly found on northern European paintings.
therefor I tend to a northern Europe origin, holland,Germany or Sweden.

best,
Jasper

7th March 2019, 06:17 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Early dagger A very old friend of mine sold me this well conserved dagger from his collection. Because of its very short ricasso and the style of its blade I think it is a piece made around 1550, but perhaps there are other opinions? Regards corrado26 Attached Images

7th March 2019, 09:15 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	when I refer to the fig shaped pommel, norman type 63 1635-1655. this period comes across with the knob-shaped terminals at the guard. attached a pillow sword from the same period. best, jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 7th March 2019 at 10:59 PM.

14th March 2019, 04:27 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	The safest way to date a rapier or dagger is by the shape of the pommel, this pommelshape was subject to fashion and period bound. Norman relies with his work mainly on dated paintings and connects pommels from the paintings to specific periods. A ring guard is not necessary for a 17th century dagger, there are many without it, see for example this dagger from 1650 (from antique trade) This dagger is more elaborate but of the same type as the one under discussion. (pommel type 63 and a similar guard) best, Jasper Attached Images

7th March 2019, 09:22 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice. Italian, maybe ? .

14th March 2019, 05:54 PM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Hello Jasper, many thanks for your further reply that made me clear what I misunderstood. What do you think about its origine? Italy? Regards corrado26