Help ID 19th Century Incised Parrying Shield

Boswego · 13th April 2006, 04:22 PM

Greetings to the esteemed members of Vikingsword.Here's a piece thats been in the Family since at laest the 1920's.It's 36" long and adzed (marks on back )mcrafted of a fairly heavy and very hard wood.The incised design is filled w/ powdered bone /shell (?).I've seen numerous examples of Ausralian Parrying Shields-but none that totally mimics the front design (also the inset carved handles on the Aussies usually is raised /pops out-this one is totally inset).The old canvas attached tag says-'Fiji Island Shield.Of men 60 yrs. ago.' I can't find anything on the web w/ pics of a Fijian Shield (aside from the Fiji Flag Coat of Arms-the European armorial device).

VANDOO · 13th April 2006, 05:25 PM

I WOULD VOTE FOR AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL SHIELD. THERE ARE QUITE A LOT OF VARIATIONS AS THERE WERE MANY GROUPS SPREAD OVER A WIDE TERRITORY. IT WILL TAKE SOMEONE WHO IS A EXPERT IN ABORIGINAL ART TO PIN DOWN REGION AND TRIBE FOR YOU. THE WOOD DOES LOOK LIKE A TYPE USED FOR SHIELDS IN AUSTRALIA AND THE DESIGNS LOOK RIGHT BUT THEY ARE MORE COMPLICATED THAN WHAT IS USUALLY SEEN. A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE THANKS FOR SHAREING

AND GOOD LUCK ON GETTING THE INFORMATION.

Tim Simmons · 13th April 2006, 10:00 PM

I think this is very nice. It is far more than a shield. It is a weapon, look how heavy it is. A blow from an end would split your skull, imagine an under cut blow, coming up and hitting you under the chin, you would bite your tounge off then spit your teeth out. Ergh! I feel a bit dizzy now.

drdavid · 14th April 2006, 01:53 AM

Hi Boswego
design is more like indigenous Australian than Fijian to my fairly inexpert eyes.
DrD
ps here are couple of links that display what may be some examples of Fijian shields

http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...mekenivalu.jpg
shows the classic 'war fans'

http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...ns/warrior.jpg
shows a woven thing that may be a shield in background

mmontoro · 14th April 2006, 04:36 AM

My vote is S.E. Australian, too. It looks nice. Shields were uncommon in Fiji.

VANDOO · 14th April 2006, 04:56 PM

I WOULD SEARCH ON EBAY UNDER ABORIGINAL AND FIND A DEALER WHO IS SELLING GOOD OLD ITEMS WITH GOOD INFORMATION AND SEE IF THEY WOULD HELP YOU GET A ID. IF YOU SEND THEM A PICTURE. YOU CAN ALSO SEARCH FOR ABORIGINAL ART DEALERS ON GOOGLE. OR YOU CAN SEND IT TO ME AND I WILL HANG IT ON THE WALL FOR A YEAR OR TWO AND PONDER IT AND SEE IF IT WILL SPEAK TO ME OF ITS ORIGIN

GOOD LUCK

mmontoro · 14th April 2006, 05:06 PM

When Vandoo is through with his evaluation you can send it to me for a year or two if you would like a second opinion.

Boswego · 14th April 2006, 05:10 PM

I agree with the Australian Aboriginal comments,ie: the form,wood,motif all look right.The only thing thats a mystery is the complexity of the carving ! The tribal Aussies were fine carvers but generally their style is a lot simpler-maybe this craftsmen just had a lot of time on His hands.

Tim Simmons · 14th April 2006, 05:28 PM

It is possible that it may be from Islands around and NW of Australia where there could an "Australasian" influence. I only say this because of the rather strong formal patterns and the actual solidness reminds me of some shield forms from the eastern extremes of Indonesian cultures. This is just a thought.

Ian · 14th April 2006, 05:53 PM

I suppose it could be Fijian, but it just does not look particularly Fijian.

You might also check out the Torres Strait Islands. They are closer to Australia and the early- to mid-20th C. attribution might fit with a period of greater European contact with those islands.

Ian.

Battara · 14th April 2006, 08:41 PM

I have seen some earlier Australian shields like this.

Boswego · 15th April 2006, 04:12 AM

Battara-Do You recall where (website maybe) You saw the earlier Australian Shields ? I'll also see if I can find pics of the Torres Island Shields on the Web-thanks to all for the help.This site is an amazing resource !

13th April 2006, 04:22 PM	#1
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Help ID 19th Century Incised Parrying Shield Greetings to the esteemed members of Vikingsword.Here's a piece thats been in the Family since at laest the 1920's.It's 36" long and adzed (marks on back )mcrafted of a fairly heavy and very hard wood.The incised design is filled w/ powdered bone /shell (?).I've seen numerous examples of Ausralian Parrying Shields-but none that totally mimics the front design (also the inset carved handles on the Aussies usually is raised /pops out-this one is totally inset).The old canvas attached tag says-'Fiji Island Shield.Of men 60 yrs. ago.' I can't find anything on the web w/ pics of a Fijian Shield (aside from the Fiji Flag Coat of Arms-the European armorial device). Attached Images

14th April 2006, 01:53 AM	#4
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Hi Boswego design is more like indigenous Australian than Fijian to my fairly inexpert eyes. DrD ps here are couple of links that display what may be some examples of Fijian shields http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...mekenivalu.jpg shows the classic 'war fans' http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...ns/warrior.jpg shows a woven thing that may be a shield in background Last edited by drdavid; 14th April 2006 at 02:06 AM. Reason: adding links

14th April 2006, 05:10 PM	#8
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Australian Parrying Shield 18th-19th Century I agree with the Australian Aboriginal comments,ie: the form,wood,motif all look right.The only thing thats a mystery is the complexity of the carving ! The tribal Aussies were fine carvers but generally their style is a lot simpler-maybe this craftsmen just had a lot of time on His hands.

15th April 2006, 04:12 AM	#12
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Pics of the earlier Aussie Shields? Battara-Do You recall where (website maybe) You saw the earlier Australian Shields ? I'll also see if I can find pics of the Torres Island Shields on the Web-thanks to all for the help.This site is an amazing resource !

13th April 2006, 05:25 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD VOTE FOR AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL SHIELD. THERE ARE QUITE A LOT OF VARIATIONS AS THERE WERE MANY GROUPS SPREAD OVER A WIDE TERRITORY. IT WILL TAKE SOMEONE WHO IS A EXPERT IN ABORIGINAL ART TO PIN DOWN REGION AND TRIBE FOR YOU. THE WOOD DOES LOOK LIKE A TYPE USED FOR SHIELDS IN AUSTRALIA AND THE DESIGNS LOOK RIGHT BUT THEY ARE MORE COMPLICATED THAN WHAT IS USUALLY SEEN. A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE THANKS FOR SHAREING AND GOOD LUCK ON GETTING THE INFORMATION.

13th April 2006, 10:00 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think this is very nice. It is far more than a shield. It is a weapon, look how heavy it is. A blow from an end would split your skull, imagine an under cut blow, coming up and hitting you under the chin, you would bite your tounge off then spit your teeth out. Ergh! I feel a bit dizzy now.

14th April 2006, 04:36 AM	#5
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	My vote is S.E. Australian, too. It looks nice. Shields were uncommon in Fiji.

14th April 2006, 04:56 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD SEARCH ON EBAY UNDER ABORIGINAL AND FIND A DEALER WHO IS SELLING GOOD OLD ITEMS WITH GOOD INFORMATION AND SEE IF THEY WOULD HELP YOU GET A ID. IF YOU SEND THEM A PICTURE. YOU CAN ALSO SEARCH FOR ABORIGINAL ART DEALERS ON GOOGLE. OR YOU CAN SEND IT TO ME AND I WILL HANG IT ON THE WALL FOR A YEAR OR TWO AND PONDER IT AND SEE IF IT WILL SPEAK TO ME OF ITS ORIGIN GOOD LUCK

14th April 2006, 05:06 PM	#7
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	When Vandoo is through with his evaluation you can send it to me for a year or two if you would like a second opinion.

14th April 2006, 05:28 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It is possible that it may be from Islands around and NW of Australia where there could an "Australasian" influence. I only say this because of the rather strong formal patterns and the actual solidness reminds me of some shield forms from the eastern extremes of Indonesian cultures. This is just a thought.

14th April 2006, 05:53 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	I suppose it could be Fijian, but it just does not look particularly Fijian. You might also check out the Torres Strait Islands. They are closer to Australia and the early- to mid-20th C. attribution might fit with a period of greater European contact with those islands. Ian.

14th April 2006, 08:41 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	I have seen some earlier Australian shields like this.