Pamor Udan Mas

dbhmgb · 20th April 2012, 10:08 PM

Here is yet another on of my kerises.

This blade can not be very old, but I bought it mainly for the pamor.

Thanks!
Dan

Rick · 20th April 2012, 11:43 PM

A very well controlled pamor; I like the blade .

dbhmgb · 21st April 2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A very well controlled pamor; I like the blade .

Thanks! I had seen other Udan Mas blades (I think on this site) and they appealed to me quite a bit. When I saw this, I knew it was for me.

Rick · 21st April 2012, 03:55 AM

May it bring you riches and prosperity .

asomotif · 21st April 2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A very well controlled pamor; I like the blade .

Yep, fully agree, no matter what age.

dbhmgb · 21st April 2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

May it bring you riches and prosperity .

I'm open to that, I could use a rain of gold right now! Heck, I'd settle for a light shower...

GIO · 21st April 2012, 08:20 PM

Nice blade. I have one very very similar, and think both are recent manufacture. May I suggest you to provide better hilt and mendak?

Sajen · 21st April 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Nice blade. I have one very very similar, and think both are recent manufacture. May I suggest you to provide better hilt and mendak?

Agree, a good hilt and mendak and you have a nice recent keris.

Regards,

Detlef

dbhmgb · 20th May 2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Agree, a good hilt and mendak and you have a nice recent keris.

Regards,

Detlef

Done.

Jean · 21st May 2012, 09:28 AM

Another similar piece from my collection and also recent, sorry for the picture quality.
I would like to mention that a specific problem frequently encountered when collecting recently made krisses is that there are many twins on the market (from the same maker?), which is a bit irritating if you aim at owning unique pieces...
Regards

dbhmgb · 21st May 2012, 11:27 AM

Jean,

You make an excellent point!

The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person.

Dan

Jean · 21st May 2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbhmgb

Jean,

You make an excellent point!

The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person.

Dan

Hi Dan,
Yeah, this is actually related to the other thread about collecting new krisses. It would be nice if Gio could show us his similar blade as well for comparison purpose.
I attach another picture of my kris from the other side of the blade.
Regards
Jean

Rick · 21st May 2012, 02:53 PM

It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade .

Good workmanship but a little unimaginative in execution .

dbhmgb · 21st May 2012, 04:25 PM

Just for grins - I threw this together real fast to compare our pamor patterns.

Jean · 21st May 2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade .

Right observation Rick, thanks. This type of repeating pattern seems standard on many modern UM blades. The shape and dapur of both blades also look similar, mine is 37.5 cm long excluding the peksi and was probably made in Madura.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2012, 10:36 PM

Simple dhapur.

Simple pamor.

Same time period.

Same point of geographic origin.

All blades competently made.

Do we really expect to see any variation?

This is what the appraisal of keris is all about:- they are not supposed to display invention and imagination, they are supposed to display uniformity.

Think about it:- if a keris is produced for local consumption, it needs to be made within very narrow parameters in order to be fitted to a correctly formed and proportioned set of dress. If the maker is working to a uniform pattern in one dimension of his work, its no real big effort to maintain that uniformity.

If you look at a selection of very high quality, but simple, Javanese blades from, say, the PBX era, you will find similar uniformity, even though the makers are different.

When we move from simplicity to complexity, say a dhapur with full ricikan, or a complex twist pamor, yes, there we will find the variation in execution that points to different hands being involved.

dbhmgb · 21st May 2012, 10:42 PM

Alan,

Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

Dan

GIO · 27th May 2012, 03:58 PM

Hi Jean,
Here is my blade.
Sorry for the bad pics: it is cloudy today.

Jean · 28th May 2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Hi Jean,
Here is my blade.
Sorry for the bad pics: it is cloudy today.

Thanks Gio, the blade looks similar indeed but from the pictures the pamor pattern is less regular than on the 2 others, may be made by a different person?

Regards

GIO · 29th May 2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Thanks Gio, the blade looks similar indeed but from the pictures the pamor pattern is less regular than on the 2 others, may be made by a different person?

Regards

Yes, Jean. I seems that in my kris the dots are not regularly spread over the blade.

Paul B. · 24th January 2022, 12:21 PM

An UDAN MAS blade I spotted with 3 in a row dot arrangment.
Said to be a Tuban blade.

A. G. Maisey · 24th January 2022, 08:00 PM

Paul, it would be very unusual for a Tuban blade to have this pamor.

Tuban was not known for producing manipulated pamors of any kind.

A full length photo + a photo of the top of the gonjo would be useful in assisting a possible identification.

Paul B. · 27th January 2022, 11:04 AM

Here are some extra pics. Would welcome input.
It is really a big, strong and beefy blade. Maybe the pics don't tell.

A. G. Maisey · 27th January 2022, 07:12 PM

The pics tell very clearly Paul.

I would definitely accept this blade as stylistically Tuban.

Quite unusual I think. I cannot recall seeing a Tuban blade with manipulated pamor.

The details appear pretty crisp do we know where this has been?

Reason I ask is because we expect Tuban blades to be old, rather than young, but if this went to Europe a two or three hundred years ago, it could well look like this

20th April 2012, 10:08 PM	#1
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Pamor Udan Mas Here is yet another on of my kerises. This blade can not be very old, but I bought it mainly for the pamor. Thanks! Dan Attached Images

21st May 2012, 09:28 AM	#10
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Another similar piece from my collection and also recent, sorry for the picture quality. I would like to mention that a specific problem frequently encountered when collecting recently made krisses is that there are many twins on the market (from the same maker?), which is a bit irritating if you aim at owning unique pieces... Regards Attached Images

21st May 2012, 04:25 PM	#14
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Just for grins - I threw this together real fast to compare our pamor patterns. Attached Images

27th May 2012, 03:58 PM	#18
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Hi Jean, Here is my blade. Sorry for the bad pics: it is cloudy today. Attached Images

24th January 2022, 12:21 PM	#21
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	An UDAN MAS blade I spotted with 3 in a row dot arrangment. Said to be a Tuban blade. Attached Images Last edited by Paul B.; 24th January 2022 at 01:46 PM.

20th April 2012, 11:43 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	A very well controlled pamor; I like the blade .

21st April 2012, 03:55 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	May it bring you riches and prosperity .

21st April 2012, 08:20 PM	#7
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Nice blade. I have one very very similar, and think both are recent manufacture. May I suggest you to provide better hilt and mendak?

21st May 2012, 11:27 AM	#11
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Jean, You make an excellent point! The similarities are amazing. It would be interesting to know if they were forged by the same person. Dan

21st May 2012, 02:53 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	It is the pattern of the udan mas that is the same here; 2 1 2 1 2 1 and so on down the blade . Good workmanship but a little unimaginative in execution .

21st May 2012, 10:36 PM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	Simple dhapur. Simple pamor. Same time period. Same point of geographic origin. All blades competently made. Do we really expect to see any variation? This is what the appraisal of keris is all about:- they are not supposed to display invention and imagination, they are supposed to display uniformity. Think about it:- if a keris is produced for local consumption, it needs to be made within very narrow parameters in order to be fitted to a correctly formed and proportioned set of dress. If the maker is working to a uniform pattern in one dimension of his work, its no real big effort to maintain that uniformity. If you look at a selection of very high quality, but simple, Javanese blades from, say, the PBX era, you will find similar uniformity, even though the makers are different. When we move from simplicity to complexity, say a dhapur with full ricikan, or a complex twist pamor, yes, there we will find the variation in execution that points to different hands being involved.

21st May 2012, 10:42 PM	#17
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	Alan, Thank you, that makes perfect sense. Dan

24th January 2022, 08:00 PM	#22
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	Paul, it would be very unusual for a Tuban blade to have this pamor. Tuban was not known for producing manipulated pamors of any kind. A full length photo + a photo of the top of the gonjo would be useful in assisting a possible identification.

27th January 2022, 11:04 AM	#23
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Here are some extra pics. Would welcome input. It is really a big, strong and beefy blade. Maybe the pics don't tell. Attached Images

27th January 2022, 07:12 PM	#24
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	The pics tell very clearly Paul. I would definitely accept this blade as stylistically Tuban. Quite unusual I think. I cannot recall seeing a Tuban blade with manipulated pamor. The details appear pretty crisp do we know where this has been? Reason I ask is because we expect Tuban blades to be old, rather than young, but if this went to Europe a two or three hundred years ago, it could well look like this