OLD AND NEW BARUNGS

xasterix · 25th August 2020, 04:07 AM

Greetings everyone,

Thanks to everyone who appreciated my previous modern pira post. Here's a lineup of a close friend of mine. Mostly modern barungs from the Sulu archipelago. In the blades-out pic, only the two long ones with dark-brown-hilts are old.

In the scabbarded pic, some Palawan badungs have been thrown into the mix.

Further proof that the traditional arts are alive and well.

kai · 25th August 2020, 08:06 AM

Now, that's a line-up, complete with dwarf barung! Thanks, Xas!

The artisans obviously put a lot of effort into crafting these. However, I have yet to find any modern style hilts that resemble the ergonomics of the old-style designs. (I have to stipulate though, that I haven't handled enough modern hilts to make a general statement.)

I know it's hard to change a cultural development of possibly over 100 years. Wouldn't it make sense though to also try to reproduce old-style hilts, especially if functional blades are desired?

Regards,
Kai

xasterix · 26th August 2020, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Now, that's a line-up, complete with dwarf barung! Thanks, Xas!

The artisans obviously put a lot of effort into crafting these. However, I have yet to find any modern style hilts that resemble the ergonomics of the old-style designs. (I have to stipulate though, that I haven't handled enough modern hilts to make a general statement.)

I know it's hard to change a cultural development of possibly over 100 years. Wouldn't it make sense though to also try to reproduce old-style hilts, especially if functional blades are desired?

Regards,
Kai

Good point on the hilts. Really ergonomic hilts like those of the old ones are hard to come by nowadays. They're still around, but it takes some digging (and access to difficult-to-reach areas) to locate artisans who have the knowledge and skill to make ergonomic hilts.

kai · 26th August 2020, 02:23 AM

I'd certainly love to see any examples you may came across. Thanks, Xas!

Regards,
Kai

Interested Party · 4th September 2020, 02:27 PM

How do older hilts differ in the hand from modern ones? Do the older hilts move the balance to or away from the point? Or do the modern hilts have a twisty, insecure feel in the hand? Is it a difference in how they slice across a target?

kai · 4th September 2020, 05:54 PM

Hilts from the 19th century (or older) are a joy to hold. Period. (Only really extravagant renditions of junggayan hilts compromise ergonomics for show. The vast majority of all extant examples offers a very positive grip.)

Modern hilts tend to dig into the palm of the hand during usage and some also put undue stress on the pinkie - they can be a real pain to use for any extended period. Usually they are made from less dense wood (weightwise this may be "compensated for" by more bulky design) and not well polished.

I'm afraid I never bought any modern Sulu hilt. Thus, I currently can't compare them directly side by side.

Regards,
Kai

xasterix · 4th September 2020, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hilts from the 19th century (or older) are a joy to hold. Period. (Only really extravagant renditions of junggayan hilts compromise ergonomics for show. The vast majority of all extant examples offers a very positive grip.)

Modern hilts tend to dig into the palm of the hand during usage and some also put undue stress on the pinkie - they can be a real pain to use for any extended period. Usually they are made from less dense wood (weightwise this may be "compensated for" by more bulky design) and not well polished.

I'm afraid I never bought any modern Sulu hilt. Thus, I currently can't compare them directly side by side.

Regards,
Kai

I second this - old hilts are indeed highly ergonomic as compared to most modern hilts. However, there are modern, off the grid pandays whose hilts almost reach to the level of old ones. They are scattered throughout the Sulu archipelago, usually in areas that are difficult to access due to conflicts between extremists and government troops.

xasterix · 18th September 2020, 12:51 PM

Here's a new barung from Jolo, Sulu. Engraved blade, silver ferrule, silver wire budbud, bunti hilt. It's a beast in terms of performance; solid and hefty despite its relatively small size (just over 9inches blade). There are modern barungs like this one that are very well-made.

kino · 18th September 2020, 04:21 PM

That's nice.
How thick is the blade nearest the hilt? How's the blade constructed, pattern welded? Mono steel?
Thanks for sharing.

xasterix · 19th September 2020, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

That's nice.
How thick is the blade nearest the hilt? How's the blade constructed, pattern welded? Mono steel?
Thanks for sharing.

Hi sir Kino, the spine nearest to hilt is 0.5cm exact. The blade is monosteel.

kronckew · 19th September 2020, 07:58 AM

Can someone post a side by side comparison of the 'comfortable' old style alongside an 'uncomfortable' modern one? A picture is worth a thousand words...

Ian · 19th September 2020, 09:27 AM

Wayne, you may find some useful observations in this thread--Modern barung. As Xasterix has noted, there are still some traditional barung makers, but many of the newer pieces show unusual features and some of these are illustrated in that thread.

25th August 2020, 04:07 AM	#1
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 653	OLD AND NEW BARUNGS Greetings everyone, Thanks to everyone who appreciated my previous modern pira post. Here's a lineup of a close friend of mine. Mostly modern barungs from the Sulu archipelago. In the blades-out pic, only the two long ones with dark-brown-hilts are old. In the scabbarded pic, some Palawan badungs have been thrown into the mix. Further proof that the traditional arts are alive and well. Attached Images

18th September 2020, 12:51 PM	#8
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 653	Here's a new barung from Jolo, Sulu. Engraved blade, silver ferrule, silver wire budbud, bunti hilt. It's a beast in terms of performance; solid and hefty despite its relatively small size (just over 9inches blade). There are modern barungs like this one that are very well-made. Attached Images

25th August 2020, 08:06 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Now, that's a line-up, complete with dwarf barung! Thanks, Xas! The artisans obviously put a lot of effort into crafting these. However, I have yet to find any modern style hilts that resemble the ergonomics of the old-style designs. (I have to stipulate though, that I haven't handled enough modern hilts to make a general statement.) I know it's hard to change a cultural development of possibly over 100 years. Wouldn't it make sense though to also try to reproduce old-style hilts, especially if functional blades are desired? Regards, Kai

26th August 2020, 02:23 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I'd certainly love to see any examples you may came across. Thanks, Xas! Regards, Kai

4th September 2020, 02:27 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 465	How do older hilts differ in the hand from modern ones? Do the older hilts move the balance to or away from the point? Or do the modern hilts have a twisty, insecure feel in the hand? Is it a difference in how they slice across a target?

4th September 2020, 05:54 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hilts from the 19th century (or older) are a joy to hold. Period. (Only really extravagant renditions of junggayan hilts compromise ergonomics for show. The vast majority of all extant examples offers a very positive grip.) Modern hilts tend to dig into the palm of the hand during usage and some also put undue stress on the pinkie - they can be a real pain to use for any extended period. Usually they are made from less dense wood (weightwise this may be "compensated for" by more bulky design) and not well polished. I'm afraid I never bought any modern Sulu hilt. Thus, I currently can't compare them directly side by side. Regards, Kai

18th September 2020, 04:21 PM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	That's nice. How thick is the blade nearest the hilt? How's the blade constructed, pattern welded? Mono steel? Thanks for sharing.

19th September 2020, 07:58 AM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	Can someone post a side by side comparison of the 'comfortable' old style alongside an 'uncomfortable' modern one? A picture is worth a thousand words...

19th September 2020, 09:27 AM	#12
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Wayne, you may find some useful observations in this thread--Modern barung. As Xasterix has noted, there are still some traditional barung makers, but many of the newer pieces show unusual features and some of these are illustrated in that thread.