RARE BORNEO SWORD IS IT AN PARANG NIABOR ???

Dajak · 14th August 2007, 06:43 PM

Rare Mandau ???

VVV · 14th August 2007, 10:56 PM

That's a quite unique Iban parang.
I agree that the closest classification is a Parang Niabor.
But how old do you estimate it to be?

Michael

Dajak · 15th August 2007, 07:01 AM

Hi Michael 1800 or earlyer very big blade

Ben

kronckew · 15th August 2007, 11:48 AM

that's a nice one, reminds me of my slightly more modern parang langgai tinggang

CharlesS · 15th August 2007, 02:04 PM

That's a MONSTER Benny. Other than the oversized blade(and even the shape of that fits), all other features seem to indicate a parang niabor.

Must have taken a big man to handle that one.

VVV · 15th August 2007, 03:12 PM

It's also interesting with the rectangular kundieng as well as the multi-influence from other swords and tribes.
Like the Pakayun resembling brass ferrule (Murut) as well as the more Pandat resembling brass work at the back of the blade (Land Dayak).
Could you please add some more pictures of the motifs on the scabbard as well as the carvings on the hilt?

Michael

Dajak · 16th August 2007, 04:09 PM

Hi Michael when I am back from my vacation I will post them

Ben

Mytribalworld · 11th October 2007, 02:36 PM

Hi Ben,

according to what I found it should be a " Ajananpka" parang permaaki made by the grand-grand father from Singkoem. The iron he used he took it from the former Demang from Semitau ( or Semitan) (the handwriting isnt very clear). According to the old dayak are many heads captured with this piece.When it came in to the museum ( and that handwriting is already very old) its was already 100 years old according to the writer.
Its not quite clear who the writer is but we think that its one of the fathers from the former mission museum in Tilburg.
strange enough this is almost the only sword in their collection with such a detailed description.

If the place name is indeed Semitau ( sometimes shortened up with "Smitau")
Its somewhere in the area of the Kapoeas river about 40 kilometers south from the Sarawak border in Dutch Borneo ( de westerafdeeling)
Its very close near the Kantoek and Batang Loepar tribes.

Arjan.

Dajak · 12th October 2007, 03:44 AM

Hi Arjan I was looking for facts not story s off this sword .
That I did already know.

Ben

Mytribalworld · 12th October 2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Arjan I was looking for facts not story s off this sword .
That I did already know.

Ben

dear Ben,

thanks for your kind answer but this is a forum so I thought it may be interesting info for other readers also..............

Arjan.

asomotif · 12th October 2007, 09:30 AM

Ben,

Are you making any progress with your time travel machine

I am living in the year 2007. If the mandau is from before 1800's all we will have are stories or assumptions.

Even if another collector would have an almost identical sword of approximate age his information on that sword would either be stories or assumptions.

VVV · 12th October 2007, 10:27 AM

Thanks Arjan for sharing this info and thanks Ben for sharing the pictures of this rare parang.
For me there is a big difference of "stories" and notes from when and where it was collected and brought to the museum.
It's a pity that so many interesting collections are hidden in the museum depots and that they don't at least invest in picture databases when they don't have room to exhibit their collections.

Michael

Dajak · 13th October 2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

dear Ben,

thanks for your kind answer but this is a forum so I thought it may be interesting info for other readers also..............

Arjan.

Speculations and story s that not can be proven are always difficult because some one gets an wrong idee about something .

You forgot to tell that this is from an weapon collector that give s his collection to the museum not the missionares did collect this weapon.
all marked with this label is from his collection .
this is an important note .

Ben

Mytribalworld · 13th October 2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Speculations and story s that not can be proven are always difficult because some one gets an wrong idee about something .

You forgot to tell that this is from an weapon collector that give s his collection to the museum not the missionares did collect this weapon.
all marked with this label is from his collection .
this is an important note .

Ben

You made a mistake, the sword is not from the collection of Beijens.
Its indeed collected by the missionares ,also the curator assured me and the tag proves that it comes from the collection of Tilburg.see also the pic of the tag.
The collection of Nijmegen is mainly built up by two large collections 1: the collection of Beiijens 2: the collection of the missionaries of Tilburg.In Tilburg there was a missionmuseum that donated their collection to Nijmegen after closing.
I was suprised finding in the museumcollection so many north Borneo swords
like nyabor and pandat etc. but after a short study I found out that they had a mission post in a village near Smitau.They where quite active just south near the border of Sarawak. Also they made travels to Batang Lupar village

I don't want to speculate , the reader may decide what to believe but sometimes stories also are important and belongs to the facts of a certain object.

Dajak · 13th October 2007, 07:20 AM

I will copy the cart for you Arjan I will be in the depot In 2 weeks again

Ben

Mytribalworld · 13th October 2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

I will copy the cart for you Arjan I will be in the depot In 2 weeks again

Ben

Ok Ben but I don't think if the tag on the sword clearly shows " Tilburg" and the description with drawings shows the swords collected by the mission and the collectionnumber doesn't look like a " Beijens number" (they mostly begin with 43......) you can convince me with a card that its not from Tilburg.
Also I don't think curators exchange tags from sword for fun......

regards,

Arjan.

Dajak · 13th October 2007, 08:53 AM

I was only telling it came from an sword collector never say it was from the beijens collection.

Good reading is always good to make no mistakes Arjan.

Ben

Mytribalworld · 13th October 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

I was only telling it came from an sword collector never say it was from the beijens collection.

Good reading is always good to make no mistakes Arjan.

Ben

Indeed Ben,I'm glad you finally noticed....l.

Dajak · 13th October 2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

You made a mistake, the sword is not from the collection of Beijens.
Its indeed collected by the missionares ,also the curator assured me and the tag proves that it comes from the collection of Tilburg.see also the pic of the tag.
.

you telling me I made an mistake I never write it is fom the Beijens collection
read arjan please it would be better for us all

Ben

Mytribalworld · 13th October 2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

you telling me I made an mistake I never write it is fom the Beijens collection
read arjan please it would be better for us all

Ben

can you than please give me a name of that " other" collector?
that would made the discussion some clearer.

Arjan.

Dajak · 13th October 2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

I will copy the cart for you Arjan I will be in the depot In 2 weeks again

Ben

Read Arjan please read

Ben

Mytribalworld · 14th October 2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Read Arjan please read

Ben

does that mean " yes I have also to read it first" ? or "yes I have read it but forgot whats on it?"

Arjan.

Dajak · 14th October 2007, 08:35 AM

If you don t now

I explain it was given by an collector
to the people in Tilburg not collected by themselves .
I will see in 2 weeks if they have an name on it.

I hope you understand now .

That is why I say read good
Maybe also when you was there in the museum and you didn t read good what they tell about the sword .

Ben

Mytribalworld · 14th October 2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

If you don t now

I explain it was given by an collector
to the people in Tilburg not collected by themselves .
I will see in 2 weeks if they have an name on it.

I hope you understand now .

That is why I say read good
Maybe also when you was there in the museum and you didn t read good what they tell about the sword .

Ben

Ok that at least explains something.
But if you are there please ask the curator for that little booklet what I found there. its a description of many items from Tilburg also the swords.
In it there are schetches and descriptions.note that the collection numbers are the old ones. sadly they don't know who has written it but seen to the many items in it the curator has the idea that its from the fathers from Tilburg. there are also some other descriptions about other swords.
I have made pics about the sword pages if you want I can mail them.

Arjan.

Dajak · 14th October 2007, 04:55 PM

Hi Arjan that is what I mean with read I told it and you don t notice it .

The conservator Fer live s nextdoor to my Friend so no problem
for me asking anything .
I already spend much hours there .

And all pics can be find in the data base off the Museum

Ben

ps did you notice there that they only have one type brass shield off the Atjeh

Mytribalworld · 14th October 2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Arjan that is what I mean with read I told it and you don t notice it .

The conservator Fer live s nextdoor to my Friend so no problem
for me asking anything .
I already spend much hours there .

And all pics can be find in the data base off the Museum

Ben

ps did you notice there that they only have one type brass shield off the Atjeh

Its also no problem for me to get there however its a quite long travel for me.
Fer invited me to come again what I surely will do, one day is a little short.

I didn't pay much attention to the Aceh shields however there are some nice dayak shields there....

pics are indeed in the database but I always prefer to make my own pics.
So I can pic out any detail separate while museum pics are mainly one total shot, sometimes with the blade in the scabbard.

see forward to recieve the name of the father who collected those swords

Dajak · 15th October 2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Its also no problem for me to get there however its a quite long travel for me.
Fer invited me to come again what I surely will do, one day is a little short.

I didn't pay much attention to the Aceh shields however there are some nice dayak shields there....

pics are indeed in the database but I always prefer to make my own pics.
So I can pic out any detail separate while museum pics are mainly one total shot, sometimes with the blade in the scabbard.

see forward to recieve the name of the father who collected those swords

You can t read Arjan

Ben

Mytribalworld · 16th October 2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

You can t read Arjan

Ben

Hi Ben,

I think your coming close to getting personal.
This is a forum an we should talk about swords ,our common interest.
It should be nice if we let eachother free in our interpretations.
The level of this forum ( and certainly the Dayak related threads) should be of a higher level if none of the parties would act like they are alwise...
Sometimes we could learn from eachother and I think that was also why this site has once started.

Arjan.

Dajak · 16th October 2007, 06:34 PM

I think you don t think right some people wanna push what they think not what is reality .

And it seem you on this way .

Ben

Mark · 17th October 2007, 03:09 PM

We have at least a three-way pissing match going on here. Stop. Now.

The next offense will earn the offender a permanent ban. Everyone remains ON TOPIC and CIVIL, or they get banned. No debate, no discussion, no second chance.

Frankly, I have lost all patience with this kind of childish squabbling crap, from anyone in any context.

Mark
Vikingsword Staff

14th August 2007, 06:43 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	RARE BORNEO SWORD IS IT AN PARANG NIABOR ??? Rare Mandau ??? Attached Images

11th October 2007, 02:36 PM	#8
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	was there too.... Hi Ben, according to what I found it should be a " Ajananpka" parang permaaki made by the grand-grand father from Singkoem. The iron he used he took it from the former Demang from Semitau ( or Semitan) (the handwriting isnt very clear). According to the old dayak are many heads captured with this piece.When it came in to the museum ( and that handwriting is already very old) its was already 100 years old according to the writer. Its not quite clear who the writer is but we think that its one of the fathers from the former mission museum in Tilburg. strange enough this is almost the only sword in their collection with such a detailed description. If the place name is indeed Semitau ( sometimes shortened up with "Smitau") Its somewhere in the area of the Kapoeas river about 40 kilometers south from the Sarawak border in Dutch Borneo ( de westerafdeeling) Its very close near the Kantoek and Batang Loepar tribes. Arjan. Attached Images Last edited by mandaukudi; 11th October 2007 at 03:20 PM.

12th October 2007, 09:30 AM	#11
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Time travel machine ? Ben, Are you making any progress with your time travel machine I am living in the year 2007. If the mandau is from before 1800's all we will have are stories or assumptions. Even if another collector would have an almost identical sword of approximate age his information on that sword would either be stories or assumptions.

17th October 2007, 03:09 PM	#30
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I am warming up my banning stick We have at least a three-way pissing match going on here. Stop. Now. The next offense will earn the offender a permanent ban. Everyone remains ON TOPIC and CIVIL, or they get banned. No debate, no discussion, no second chance. Frankly, I have lost all patience with this kind of childish squabbling crap, from anyone in any context. Mark Vikingsword Staff

14th August 2007, 10:56 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	That's a quite unique Iban parang. I agree that the closest classification is a Parang Niabor. But how old do you estimate it to be? Michael

15th August 2007, 07:01 AM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael 1800 or earlyer very big blade Ben

15th August 2007, 11:48 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	that's a nice one, reminds me of my slightly more modern parang langgai tinggang

15th August 2007, 02:04 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	That's a MONSTER Benny. Other than the oversized blade(and even the shape of that fits), all other features seem to indicate a parang niabor. Must have taken a big man to handle that one.

15th August 2007, 03:12 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	It's also interesting with the rectangular kundieng as well as the multi-influence from other swords and tribes. Like the Pakayun resembling brass ferrule (Murut) as well as the more Pandat resembling brass work at the back of the blade (Land Dayak). Could you please add some more pictures of the motifs on the scabbard as well as the carvings on the hilt? Michael

16th August 2007, 04:09 PM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael when I am back from my vacation I will post them Ben

12th October 2007, 03:44 AM	#9
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Arjan I was looking for facts not story s off this sword . That I did already know. Ben

12th October 2007, 10:27 AM	#12
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Arjan for sharing this info and thanks Ben for sharing the pictures of this rare parang. For me there is a big difference of "stories" and notes from when and where it was collected and brought to the museum. It's a pity that so many interesting collections are hidden in the museum depots and that they don't at least invest in picture databases when they don't have room to exhibit their collections. Michael

13th October 2007, 07:20 AM	#15
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	I will copy the cart for you Arjan I will be in the depot In 2 weeks again Ben

13th October 2007, 08:53 AM	#17
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	I was only telling it came from an sword collector never say it was from the beijens collection. Good reading is always good to make no mistakes Arjan. Ben

14th October 2007, 08:35 AM	#23
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	If you don t now I explain it was given by an collector to the people in Tilburg not collected by themselves . I will see in 2 weeks if they have an name on it. I hope you understand now . That is why I say read good Maybe also when you was there in the museum and you didn t read good what they tell about the sword . Ben

14th October 2007, 04:55 PM	#25
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Arjan that is what I mean with read I told it and you don t notice it . The conservator Fer live s nextdoor to my Friend so no problem for me asking anything . I already spend much hours there . And all pics can be find in the data base off the Museum Ben ps did you notice there that they only have one type brass shield off the Atjeh

16th October 2007, 06:34 PM	#29
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	I think you don t think right some people wanna push what they think not what is reality . And it seem you on this way . Ben