Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Miscellania
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th April 2022, 01:53 PM   #1
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Question Indian it is ... but what ?

This thing has been with me since 2014. Its diameter measures 50 cms (19"). Whether this is a tea table top ... or whatever, i ignore. The scenes depicted feature a story; maybe a member studying Indian culture is able to tell what the story is about.
Apparently the back was intervened (grey painted) to comply with later device features.
I would love to know what this thing is about.


.
Attached Images
        
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2022, 10:48 AM   #2
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Not a simple comment, Gentlemen ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2022, 04:11 PM   #3
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,183
Default

Looks like a table top, underside has screw holes for 3 legs o a 3-section base. 3 make it easier to keep steady where 4 might wind up with one leg or more uneven requiring a shim to keep it from rocking. Just like for a tripod or stool.


.

Last edited by fernando; 13th April 2022 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Spare talk
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2022, 07:13 PM   #4
Peter Hudson
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 314
Default

I think its a shield with artwork from the Ramayama ...When Rama hears Sita has been taken, he and his brother Lakshman set off on a quest to save her. On their journey, Rama and Lakshman travel to Kishkindha, the kingdom of monkeys. They befriend the monkey king Hanuman, who helps the brothers. Learning that Ravana has taken Sita to his island kingdom of Lanka, they set off with a vast monkey army to get her back. please see https://asia.si.edu/the-epic-that-inspired-diwali/

Peter Hudson.
Peter Hudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2022, 12:02 PM   #5
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Thank you Perter. I would never make it myself. Your suggestion is rather plausible .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2022, 02:41 PM   #6
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Well, the central tondo depicts Durga killing the demon Mahishasura.

At least three avatars of Vishnu are recognizable - Matsya (fish), Kurma (turtle) and Narasimha, disemboweling Hiranyakashipu.

There is a possibility of at least one other Vishnu's avatar - Parashurama, depicted with axe, bow and quiver.

Perhaps there are also a couple of episodes of a certain tale, but I rather doubt it's Ramayana.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2022, 04:12 PM   #7
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Well, the central tondo depicts Durga killing the demon Mahishasura.

At least three avatars of Vishnu are recognizable - Matsya (fish), Kurma (turtle) and Narasimha, disemboweling Hiranyakashipu.

There is a possibility of at least one other Vishnu's avatar - Parashurama, depicted with axe, bow and quiver.

Perhaps there are also a couple of episodes of a certain tale, but I rather doubt it's Ramayana.
Gustav, you beat me to the punch. I do not see episodes I recognize from the Ramayana. The gods seem to be victorious in these scenes. The crux of the story of Ravana is that the gods could not defeat him, therefore Rama and his brothers had to be born. I do see Durga and Vishnu as mentioned. I wish I had the time this week to identify the rest. I love a good iconographic puzzle.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2022, 11:13 AM   #8
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Very likely at least one other avatar of Vishnu, Varaha, is also depicted, on the left tableau. The layer of painting is gone exactly at that place, but possibly the outline of boars trunk can be recognized on the centaur-like figure.

I think we quite surely can see this table top (?) in a Vaishnavite context.
Attached Images
 
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2022, 11:21 AM   #9
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

And here in the left tableau we most likely see another Vishnu's avatar , Vamana, in his boy-like shape with umbrella, before King of Asuras, Bali.
Attached Images
 
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2022, 11:38 AM   #10
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

And the last two: on the left Vishnu's avatar Rama, on the right Vishnu's avatar Krishna, killing king Kamsa.
Attached Images
 
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2022, 10:45 AM   #11
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Thumbs up Thank you so much ...

Truly amazing; eight years to find out what is going on these scenes !!!
I bought this thing in a street fair; just because the price was tempting. I have it since then decorating the walls of my garage. Yet its value increased immensely now that the riddle is cracked ... thanks to you both Gentlemen. Gustav, you were tireless .



.

Last edited by fernando; 8th December 2022 at 10:56 AM.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2022, 03:14 PM   #12
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
And the last two: on the left Vishnu's avatar Rama, on the right Vishnu's avatar Krishna, killing king Kamsa.
If it is Rama, then is his adversary Ravana with the multiple (100) heads? Isn't he usually dark rather than light skinned? I had been puzzling over that one before you wrote.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2022, 04:21 PM   #13
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Exactly, that's Ravana.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2022, 06:15 PM   #14
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Thank you again for sharing such amazing expertise.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2022, 08:16 PM   #15
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

You are welcome, Fernando.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2022, 04:20 PM   #16
Anandalal N.
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 84
Default

Posting after a long time. Note similarity to Ganjifa playing cards though the Ganjifa cards are usually circular. The artwork seems of the same type. Regards.
Anandalal N. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2022, 08:16 PM   #17
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anandalal N. View Post
Posting after a long time. Note similarity to Ganjifa playing cards though the Ganjifa cards are usually circular. The artwork seems of the same type. Regards.
Thank you Anandalal.
Interested Party, Gustav; what do you think of such reasoning ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2022, 11:17 AM   #18
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Anandalal N. speaks about Dashavatara Ganjifa, and certainly knows this terrain much better then me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashavatara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganjifa
https://i-p-c-s.org/pattern/sawdas.html
https://i-p-c-s.org/pattern/nosdas.html
https://i-p-c-s.org/pattern/kurnol.html

It is very well possible, that a Ganjifa card painter did the paintings on this table top (?). At least since the beginning of 20th cent. card painting was a dying business until it virtually stopped around 1950, and I guess, any kind of commission could have been welcome for painters.

Last edited by Gustav; 12th December 2022 at 02:52 PM.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2022, 12:11 PM   #19
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Duly noted.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.