Yataghan with T-shaped pommel

Emanuel · 9th November 2013, 05:27 PM

Hi everyone,

Sharing some period pictures of Zeibeks with their characteristic yataghan with T-shaped pommel. Zeibeks were located on the Ionian coast, around Smyrna. A wikipedia entry suggests they are descended from Yoruk groups of Anatolia but I haven't tracked down a better source. Until now these yataghan were identified as eastern or western Anatolian. Maybe some connection there?

From what I've seen, this type of yataghan generally has thicker blades with an integral bolster, as opposed to the separate heavily decorated silver ones most often seen. Dated example generally fall in the second half of the 19th century.

Attached is also a typical T-pommel yataghan from Oriental-Arms.

Thoughts?

Emanuel

TVV · 10th November 2013, 01:55 AM

Nice pictures Emanuel, thank you for sharing. I think Ariel has suggested that the T-shaped hilts are of Zeibek origin before:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...bek#post146587

Regards,
Teodor

Sancar · 10th November 2013, 05:07 PM

"Zeybek" is not an etnicity, it is an occupation, a job. It practically means outlaw or mountain men and usually bandit in 19th century rural Western Anatolia. Yorüks(nomadic Turks) of this region oftenly joined their ranks, so did fugitives from law, villagers that did not want to be drafted to army, dischaged soldiers(usually marines) etc. It is not so much different from a term like "cowboy" in western.

"Zeybek yataghan"s with T shaped hilts are very common in most of rural Turkey. Those were yataghanthat lost its function and becamne part of the costume for village elders and merchants. This T shape actually point to a decline in hiltmaking(and generally yataghan-making) in late 19th to first half of 20th centuries. It was just easier to give this simple shape instead of ears for a village blacksmith. Older, much higher quality yataghans also were rehilted in such fashion, when their original, much better grips fell victim to effects of time.

Emanuel · 12th November 2013, 02:01 AM

Yes Teodor, Ariel's post is what got me looking into Zeybeks.

Thank you for the clarification Sancar. The term "Zeybek" wasn't clear when I first read about it. Robert Elgood in "The Arms of Greece" lists one example (#172) that's actually very nicely decorated in silver with the T-pommel and he also notes the Yoruk origin of many Zeybeks.

The thing about these yataghan is that they tend to have thicker blades than the Balkan types. Generally the blade is twice as thick and it has an integral bolster. There are also very similar yataghan with horn pommel scales with very small "years", and often with "Turkish ribbon" blades, and a false silver or solder bolster at the base of integral bolster, said to be 18th century (attached), so I'm trying to track down the areas of their manufacture.

On the surface all yataghan are similar, with the same overall shape. The construction is different though, thick blade with thick tang and integral bolster, thin blades with same thickness all the way to the tang and separate silver/gold/whatever bolsters that are aesthetic, not structural.

Where and when did this thicker construction method come into play?

Emanuel

Emanuel · 21st November 2013, 12:17 AM

Some more photos of Zeibeks from 1880.

eftihis · 17th December 2013, 02:37 PM

Thanks for the very helpful explanations Sancar!

ariel · 18th December 2013, 01:39 AM

Here is the proof that Zeibeks are not an ethnicity but rather an occupation, or belonging to a certain clan: the very first pic in the recent Emanuel's series shows 2 distinctly African types. The one with the yataghan between his teeth is particularly splendid: if you can do that, you do not need a dentist:-)

12th November 2013, 02:01 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Yes Teodor, Ariel's post is what got me looking into Zeybeks. Thank you for the clarification Sancar. The term "Zeybek" wasn't clear when I first read about it. Robert Elgood in "The Arms of Greece" lists one example (#172) that's actually very nicely decorated in silver with the T-pommel and he also notes the Yoruk origin of many Zeybeks. The thing about these yataghan is that they tend to have thicker blades than the Balkan types. Generally the blade is twice as thick and it has an integral bolster. There are also very similar yataghan with horn pommel scales with very small "years", and often with "Turkish ribbon" blades, and a false silver or solder bolster at the base of integral bolster, said to be 18th century (attached), so I'm trying to track down the areas of their manufacture. On the surface all yataghan are similar, with the same overall shape. The construction is different though, thick blade with thick tang and integral bolster, thin blades with same thickness all the way to the tang and separate silver/gold/whatever bolsters that are aesthetic, not structural. Where and when did this thicker construction method come into play? Emanuel Attached Images

21st November 2013, 12:17 AM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Some more photos of Zeibeks from 1880. Attached Images

9th November 2013, 05:27 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Zeibek Yataghan with T-shaped pommel Hi everyone, Sharing some period pictures of Zeibeks with their characteristic yataghan with T-shaped pommel. Zeibeks were located on the Ionian coast, around Smyrna. A wikipedia entry suggests they are descended from Yoruk groups of Anatolia but I haven't tracked down a better source. Until now these yataghan were identified as eastern or western Anatolian. Maybe some connection there? From what I've seen, this type of yataghan generally has thicker blades with an integral bolster, as opposed to the separate heavily decorated silver ones most often seen. Dated example generally fall in the second half of the 19th century. Attached is also a typical T-pommel yataghan from Oriental-Arms. Thoughts? Emanuel Attached Images Last edited by Emanuel; 9th November 2013 at 06:58 PM.

10th November 2013, 01:55 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,621	Nice pictures Emanuel, thank you for sharing. I think Ariel has suggested that the T-shaped hilts are of Zeibek origin before: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...bek#post146587 Regards, Teodor

10th November 2013, 05:07 PM	#3
Sancar Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 79	"Zeybek" is not an etnicity, it is an occupation, a job. It practically means outlaw or mountain men and usually bandit in 19th century rural Western Anatolia. Yorüks(nomadic Turks) of this region oftenly joined their ranks, so did fugitives from law, villagers that did not want to be drafted to army, dischaged soldiers(usually marines) etc. It is not so much different from a term like "cowboy" in western. "Zeybek yataghan"s with T shaped hilts are very common in most of rural Turkey. Those were yataghanthat lost its function and becamne part of the costume for village elders and merchants. This T shape actually point to a decline in hiltmaking(and generally yataghan-making) in late 19th to first half of 20th centuries. It was just easier to give this simple shape instead of ears for a village blacksmith. Older, much higher quality yataghans also were rehilted in such fashion, when their original, much better grips fell victim to effects of time.

17th December 2013, 02:37 PM	#6
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Thanks for the very helpful explanations Sancar!

18th December 2013, 01:39 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here is the proof that Zeibeks are not an ethnicity but rather an occupation, or belonging to a certain clan: the very first pic in the recent Emanuel's series shows 2 distinctly African types. The one with the yataghan between his teeth is particularly splendid: if you can do that, you do not need a dentist:-)