Moro kris with a curved blade

Ian · 29th March 2016, 04:48 AM

This one finished online today. A most unusual curved Moro kris.

Saber-bladed Moro kris are seen from time to time and appear to have been made by Moro panday as a "custom order." I have not seen a foreign blade remounted in this manner, but my experience is limited to no more than a dozen examples over the last 25 years. Others may have knowledge of such examples.

Curved blades were obviously used widely in the Islamic world, and there are plenty of examples from nearby countries. The presence of colonial powers (Spain and the U.S.) in the region no doubt offered further examples to be examined and imitated. However, just why a Moro warrior might want to make a radical change from a kris to saber, and learn a completely new set of skills that were not well developed locally among his people, is an interesting question.

Ian.

David · 29th March 2016, 05:14 AM

My assumption is that this is a foreign blade that has been re-forged. I have seen at least a couple more similar to this. I am sure there are photos somewhere in our archives.

mross · 29th March 2016, 06:18 PM

I saw it and was a bidder. It went way to high for me.

I did not have it in hand to be sure. However from what I can tell it is indeed a saber point kris that was made that way. There did not seem to be any indication of it being reground or reworked to that type. The only reason I was not willing to go higher is the handle is not correct. Other than that in my mind it is for sure a Sulu kris.

Sajen · 29th March 2016, 07:58 PM

Hello Ian,

this saber like kris were discussed already before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre & here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sword

I was also one of the bidders but don't go higher by the same reason Mross don't bid higher.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 29th March 2016, 08:18 PM

Hi Sajen:

Yes, you are right that these have been discussed here several times previously. The old UBB forum also had a couple more examples. These swords are so uncommon that I think they deserve mentioning each time we see one because there are quite a few Moro sword collectors who visit these pages and there is interest in these pieces.

In partial answer to my own question about foreign blades showing up in these forms of kris, there was one posted previously in the first thread you mention that may well be a remounted Western saber. That one is shown here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=15 and the picture came from a museum in Seattle. And here is a similar example http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...85&postcount=1 that may also be a remounted Western saber.

One thing I have noted about these kris sabers is that they tend to mounted plainly (rather than in a junggayan style) with business-like scabbards, and seem to have been intended for use--i.e. combat.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Ian,

this saber like kris were discussed already before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre & here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sword

I was also one of the bidders but don't go higher by the same reason Mross don't bid higher.

Regards,
Detlef

mross · 29th March 2016, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Ian,

this saber like kris were discussed already before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre & here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sword

I was also one of the bidders but don't go higher by the same reason Mross don't bid higher.

Regards,
Detlef

Detlef, I like the references! Any way the mods could consolidate or link these discussions together for future reference? I do believe this is a legitimate type albeit a rare one. I can't remember for sure but I do not think Cato even mentioned it so this is one of a few (maybe only) places where collectors/researchers can find any kind of information.

Ian · 29th March 2016, 08:28 PM

mross:

I will talk with Lee and see if we can consolidate the information across several threads and make it a sticky.

Cato does not mention this variant of the kris as far I can recall.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Detlef, I like the references! Any way the mods could consolidate or link these discussions together for future reference? I do believe this is a legitimate type albeit are rare one. I can't remember for sure but I do not think Cato even mentioned it so this is one of a few (maybe only) places where collectors/researchers can find any kind of information.

David · 29th March 2016, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

this saber like kris were discussed already before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre & here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sword

Thanks for digging these up Detlef. I knew we had more than one thread with examples of these (not just the rare "chunky" single-edged variety, but ones that specifically seem to have saber blades). What's really funny is that i am actually one of the starters of one of these threads. I AM getting old!

David · 29th March 2016, 08:31 PM

I am still not convinced that the example that started this thread isn't a re-purposed old saber blade. Blades can be re-worked. We don't need to see attachment weld marks for this to be the case.

Sajen · 29th March 2016, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

These swords are so uncommon that I think they deserve mentioning each time we see one because there are quite a few Moro sword collectors who visit these pages and there is interest in these pieces.

Hi Ian,

agree complete with you!

Sajen · 29th March 2016, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Detlef, I like the references! Any way the mods could consolidate or link these discussions together for future reference? I do believe this is a legitimate type albeit a rare one. I can't remember for sure but I do not think Cato even mentioned it so this is one of a few (maybe only) places where collectors/researchers can find any kind of information.

Hello Mross,

I dig this threads out some days ago when I've noticed the ebay listing. Agree with you, this threads should be connected.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 29th March 2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I AM getting old!

You'll never walk alone!

29th March 2016, 04:48 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Moro kris with a curved blade This one finished online today. A most unusual curved Moro kris. Saber-bladed Moro kris are seen from time to time and appear to have been made by Moro panday as a "custom order." I have not seen a foreign blade remounted in this manner, but my experience is limited to no more than a dozen examples over the last 25 years. Others may have knowledge of such examples. Curved blades were obviously used widely in the Islamic world, and there are plenty of examples from nearby countries. The presence of colonial powers (Spain and the U.S.) in the region no doubt offered further examples to be examined and imitated. However, just why a Moro warrior might want to make a radical change from a kris to saber, and learn a completely new set of skills that were not well developed locally among his people, is an interesting question. Ian. Attached Images

29th March 2016, 05:14 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	My assumption is that this is a foreign blade that has been re-forged. I have seen at least a couple more similar to this. I am sure there are photos somewhere in our archives.

29th March 2016, 06:18 PM	#3
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I saw it and was a bidder. It went way to high for me. I did not have it in hand to be sure. However from what I can tell it is indeed a saber point kris that was made that way. There did not seem to be any indication of it being reground or reworked to that type. The only reason I was not willing to go higher is the handle is not correct. Other than that in my mind it is for sure a Sulu kris.

29th March 2016, 07:58 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Ian, this saber like kris were discussed already before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre & here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sword I was also one of the bidders but don't go higher by the same reason Mross don't bid higher. Regards, Detlef

29th March 2016, 08:31 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I am still not convinced that the example that started this thread isn't a re-purposed old saber blade. Blades can be re-worked. We don't need to see attachment weld marks for this to be the case.