Possibly ethnographic gun, of European form

[RDGAC]

Salutations again, fellas, and a Merry Christmas and a happy new year to one and all.

Over the festive period, I've been lucky enough to receive a gift! It comes courtesy of a very kind and interesting lady I met at our museum, and as with my beloved jezail, it's once more a firearm. Groan, boo, hiss, I know - swords are fine, but guns make me tick

This particular weapon has a bit of an interesting history, what little of it I know. It has hung, for many years, over the fireplace of a guest house in Wales. This has, I suspect, done nothing for the wood, which is slightly damp and has fractured in places behind the lock. The previous owner of the house was a family whose second son went in the Army (as was the custom in those days for the wealthier end of the populace), and spent some time out in India - as most soldiers did at one time or another. Nothing more can be gleaned about it at present, but when the lady from whom I obtained it placed it muzzle-down for packing, she told me that black powder emerged from the barrel; it's obviously seen use.

Given its general design and proportions, and the fact that the guest house was once used (among other things) as a shooting lodge (and had its own gun room), I surmise that this gun was or is a fowling piece. So far, so good, you might think - but why is it in the ethnographic bit of the forum? Well, something about it isn't quite right.

Firstly, it has no British proof marks on the barrel. Since this is a percussion gun, it seems fairly likely that it might have been required to be proofed by law (the Gun Barrel Proof Act, 1868); moreover, a wealthy family would surely go to the trouble and expense of getting a gun that they (or their guests) were likely to shoot proofed even before the Act made it mandatory.

Secondly, the lockplate bears no marks at all that I can find, and nor does the lock within, save on the hammer. This has been decorated with what seem to be depictions of animals, including a rabbit, and a dotted border at its edge; I would say that this work was done by hand, judging by its irregularity and relative imprecision.

Thirdly, the build quality. The barrel displays a very slight kink (which I would put down to damage in use), but that aside, there are a couple of noteworthy points: the hammer does not strike the nipple squarely, instead striking rather towards the top of the hammer and the front of the nippkle. The snail, also, seems fairly roughly worked, without the precision I'd expect of a European gun of the period. The ramrod pipes have been brazed to their attachment strake beneath the barrel well, but roughly, and the strake itself wanders from dead centre. The trigger, meanwhile, is definitely and noticeably offset to the right, while the trigger guard (itself slightly rough) remains much more to the centre of the stock. Without wishing to malign ethnographic arms-makers, these seem a little out of place in a European sporting gun of the percussion period.

And, to add to the oddness, the whole thing is held together by modern, machine-made screws. Well, I say held together; in fact, the two lock screws do nothing of the kind. The trigger, meanwhile, pivots about a nail so modern it appears to be of galvanised steel with a chequered head!

Anyway, enough rabbiting by me. I look forward to your input, as always. Some numbers:

Overall length: 42.5in (butt-plate to muzzle)
Barrel length: 27.5in (base of tang to muzzle)
Bore: .62in /20-bore (approximate)
Action: Percussion
Year of manufacture: Unknown
Manufacturer: Unknown
Proof marks: None found

And some pictures!

[RDGAC]

And more pics.

[Jim McDougall]

Bump!

There must be somebody out there who has a book on British guns. Why no issuance, acceptance or proof marks on this? Trade gun?

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hello,

I saw simmilar guns, home made copies ("made on knee") of European guns in Nigeria (not everybody has kalashnikov here). And they were even more rough. One bought my friend in Jos a souvenier and another one I saw in hunter´s hut in a village near Bidda.
Nothing tribal like e.g. Kabyle musket etc., just old home made gun - but functional. Nevertheless tut this could be coincidence, I think such gun could come from anywhere.
Martin

[Atlantia]

TBH, I just didn't want to be the bearer of ill tidings again.
This type of gun show up fairly regularly across the UK. Supposedly from various sources, but mostly retailed by a rather 'well known' trader in the UK.
Some of them have been 'rebuilt' from separate parts, many have at the very least been 'restored' prior to coming to the UK. Including the addition of newly made replacement parts.
Yours has a newly made replacement trigger guard and some screws at least.
However, having examined a fair few of these guns, I am of the opinion that some of the main parts are in fact of relatively recent or indeed very recent manufacture.
Which perhaps should not suprise, as they are probobly still used in some places.
As Martin says, they are of 'native' manufacture.

Here is a picture of one selection of examples in a catalogue from 2001.

They were sold in grades ranging from completely 'restored', down to basically complete but needing some light work.
Yours was probobly sold missing a couple of screws and the new owner just put them in.
To be honest, the ones like you have are the better buy if you can finish them yourself.
The completely restored ones tended to be overly 'cooked' IMHO.

The same trader also sold 'sporting guns' from I think Nepal for a few years. There was also the huge pile of similar weapons from the 'Royal armoury of Nepal'. There are some pictures of piles of them floating about, I'll see if I can find you one.

[Atlantia]

Here's a picture.

[Jim McDougall]

Gene and Martin, thank you so much guys!
While we all probably feel the same, and dont want to present less than heartening news on someones acquisition, it is better to have the straight story. It is all a learning process, and I appreciate you guys stepping up to share your experience.
All the best,
Jim

[kahnjar1]

I did see this post earlier but though I would wait and see what other comments surfaced. I have to agree with both Gene and Martin. The obvious discrepancies are the shape of the forewood, the barrel band with the ring on it, the hammer with incorrect "throw" and the strange looking ram rod. Without being unkind, I would keep it as parts, or maybe a curiosity of backyard manufacture.
I was once told by an old collector friend of mine that if an item does not look right, then it probably isn't. A good maxim for all collectors IMHO.
By the way Gene, how much for the firewood in the pic??

[RDGAC]

Cheers lads! I did get the feeling this was an oddball gun, but have never come across this whole business of remaking weapons from old bits outside the Khyber Pass.

Honestly, I'm quite interested just to find out more about the old bugger. It's not as if I paid anything for it; from my point of view, I've nothing to lose and everything to play for, as well as having had a valuable learning experience. Obviously we'd all like to have the unusual and interesting bits, or at least a good, workmanlike example of the genuine article, but it can't always be so. As it stands, this little gun is an interesting curiosity that'll be good to hang up or prop in the corner. One's inclined to speculate on how it'd do as a shotgun actually... hmm.

Of course, there is one small problem. While I was drying the stock out a little (by standing it up in the front room), someone managed to knock the gun over. As a result, the stock has now split almost in two. Given that it's an odd "backyard" sort of piece, I'm inclined to put it at the bottom of my repair/acquire list, but still. At some stage a lot of stock repair will be needed on this one. Of all the bloody luck, eh?

[Pukka Bundook]

RDGAC,

If someones going to knock one of your guns over and bust the stock, it is as well to be this one!

Since I first saw this little gun, I've been wracking mi brains about it.
Someone some years ago used to sell these, sort of old, but refurbished with new bits.

I think they were sold by someone advertising in the "Guns Review" in the 70's.
I don't think it was Major Noel Corry, from Steeple-Bumpstead, but it Might have been. I know he had all kinds of eastern barrels and such.
We bought the odd one from him!
I do remember they were cheap at the time, something like ten quid for a single, and about 15 for a double. The parts didn't look like they were a very happy marriage, so we never did buy one.
This is like seriously using my memory!.......been out the country since '84.

Best of everything,
Richard.

[RDGAC]

Hiya Richard,

Thanks for that little titbit; it puts me a mite closer to working out where this old thing came from. I've just e-mailed the lady from whom I obtained it with a view to finding out more about its history, if anything is available; fingers crossed, eh?

Meredydd