Weapons of warriors from Omo river

KraVseR · 9th August 2013, 08:24 PM

Hello!
What weapons were used by the warriors, who live near the Omo River? I'm talking about Mursi, Karo (Ethiopia), Nyangatom and others.
Except for Kalash, of course

Tim Simmons · 9th August 2013, 09:24 PM

This is good region for discussion. Many members will be able to post pictures of weapons used in this area. I have a few example from these lands. Again this is an area that has a shared material culture. So it is not always possible to say that a weapon is exclusive to one group of people over a vast region. I will try to post some pictures over the weekend. This link is a good source of information on this region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilemi_Triangle

KraVseR · 10th August 2013, 06:44 AM

OK, I'm waiting

Tim Simmons · 11th August 2013, 11:22 AM

This link is worth exploring. You can click on the map or people names. All these regions border Ethiopia; Blue Nile, Upper Nile, Jonglei, and Eastern Equatoria in the disputed Ilemi Triangle. Traditional material culture and weaponry will be similar in this region. You have to remember that the borders between the tribal peoples in the Ilemi Triangle are modern colonial lines on the map.

http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/sudan_map.php

KraVseR · 11th August 2013, 12:05 PM

Thanks, great link!

Tim Simmons · 11th August 2013, 12:14 PM

Before I go on I will mention that there is a Czech member who is very well informed about this region.

Here is my small collection of items from the region. You will no doubt find examples attributed to this or that tribe. However the same forms would be found among Nilotes inhabiting what is today South Western Ethiopia.

Tim Simmons · 11th August 2013, 12:33 PM

I am adding this item as a reply. I no longer collect knives or swords unless they are truly unusual or rare, or obviously to good a bargain to miss. This piece is quite possibly Nilotic certainly East African. I form the opinion of Nilotic by the small detail at the distal of the blade. A small matter but I think it points to similar marks found on Nilotic throwing knives. Many colonial powers meddled in Ethiopia from the latter part of the 19th century. The inspiration for this weapon could have been from any of those powers forces. I also have a few spears very much like those in this picture from "African Arms And Armour, Christopher Spring British Museum Press" They awkward to move hence the picture.

KraVseR · 11th August 2013, 02:18 PM

Thanks you. But what about the names of this weapons? Simply shield, club, axe? Or is there a special term?

KraVseR · 14th August 2013, 11:55 AM

And one more question: they used the bow? And what firearms they use in XIX - early XX century?
Today this warriors use AK-47, Mossin rifle, SKS and MG-3.

KraVseR · 19th August 2013, 08:26 PM

Viewing photos and a couple of issues of "Tribe" with Bruce Perry, I came to the conclusion:
Spear of the Omo Valley had a long and wide blade, like many other African spears. However, their staff is very thin .. Spear used for close combat and for throwing. The average length varied from 1.5 to 2 meters. Sometimes on the opposite side of the blade was Drift pin.
Right?

KraVseR · 19th August 2013, 08:30 PM

What is it? Also spear?

VANDOO · 20th August 2013, 12:57 AM

PERHAPS THE LAST ITEM PICTURED IS A NOMADIC HAT RACK, WHEREVER YOU ARE YOU HAVE A PLACE TO HANG YOUR STUFF UP OFF THE GROUND.

KraVseR · 20th August 2013, 02:56 PM

Realy? Thanks, this intersted)
See, this is Bruce Perry with nyangatom's spear. Than it is decorated? Hair? But whose? They have only goats and cows, as far as I know ..

David · 20th August 2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraVseR

See, this is Bruce Perry with nyangatom's spear. Than it is decorated? Hair? But whose? They have only goats and cows, as far as I know ..

Looks like goat hair to me...

KraVseR · 19th November 2013, 07:01 PM

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "throwing knife"? regular knife, as shown in Figure one, or a knife in the likeness zandes, as shown two?

Aleksey · 26th August 2014, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I am adding this item as a reply. I no longer collect knives or swords unless they are truly unusual or rare, or obviously to good a bargain to miss. This piece is quite possibly Nilotic certainly East African. I form the opinion of Nilotic by the small detail at the distal of the blade. A small matter but I think it points to similar marks found on Nilotic throwing knives. Many colonial powers meddled in Ethiopia from the latter part of the 19th century. The inspiration for this weapon could have been from any of those powers forces.

For me it seems as usage of old Chinese blade of zhibeidao-like sword and Chinese curved hilt (even the pommel and ferrule seem to be of fanshi style). The marking could be added later, in the process of existence of the weapon among Nilotic tribesmen.

Could they use old Chinese blades?

According to my experience in China you may find old European-made machetes like the one on the picture of warrior on the first posting here. Why do not assume the vise versa situation?

Tim Simmons · 27th August 2014, 08:11 PM

Interesting idea, but was China a blade exporter at the late 19th early 20th century? That is a period of economic weakness?

Kubur · 28th August 2014, 11:13 AM

Hello,

Finger Knife ("Ngigolio") from the Turkana or Pokot people of Kenya | ca. 1986 | Metal and copper wire

Thumb ring knife from the Turkana people | Aluminium and copper | Late 19th to early 20th century

Wrist Knife with Cover ("Abarait") from the Turkana people of Kenya | ca. 1986 | Metal and leather.

and this link:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/356769601700881963/

I hope it can help.
Kubur

Aleksey · 31st August 2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Interesting idea, but was China a blade exporter at the late 19th early 20th century? That is a period of economic weakness?

Of course, you are right. But still - the same blade and hilt shape you can find e.g. in the book of Alex Huangfu "The Iron and Steel swords of China" (in Chinese), 2007, pp. 71, 73, 87, 157, 175, 180, 197 at least at first glance.

It means either the occasional appearance of the Chinese blade in the Eastern Africa after the WWII or imitation of the Chinese blade etc.

If we are able to find the machete made for Africa in China in antiquity shop - why can not we find the Chinese blade in Africa?

I am attaching the picture of the shop in Linyi, PRC - the machetes are in the pile of other Chinese sabers and spearheads (in the back pf the pile - 2 blades).

Aleksey · 3rd September 2014, 08:42 AM

Dear Tim,

Could you give the exact dimensions of the sword + good close-ups of the blade?

It seems to be real God's blessing to Nilotic smiths to fordge such a blade!

The close-ups of the blade allow to judge about the fordging technology - the Chinese style of blade making has a lot of peculiarities whuch allow us to judge quite definetely regarding the blade.

9th August 2013, 08:24 PM	#1
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Weapons of warriors from Omo river Hello! What weapons were used by the warriors, who live near the Omo River? I'm talking about Mursi, Karo (Ethiopia), Nyangatom and others. Except for Kalash, of course Attached Images

11th August 2013, 12:14 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Before I go on I will mention that there is a Czech member who is very well informed about this region. Here is my small collection of items from the region. You will no doubt find examples attributed to this or that tribe. However the same forms would be found among Nilotes inhabiting what is today South Western Ethiopia. Attached Images

11th August 2013, 12:33 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I am adding this item as a reply. I no longer collect knives or swords unless they are truly unusual or rare, or obviously to good a bargain to miss. This piece is quite possibly Nilotic certainly East African. I form the opinion of Nilotic by the small detail at the distal of the blade. A small matter but I think it points to similar marks found on Nilotic throwing knives. Many colonial powers meddled in Ethiopia from the latter part of the 19th century. The inspiration for this weapon could have been from any of those powers forces. I also have a few spears very much like those in this picture from "African Arms And Armour, Christopher Spring British Museum Press" They awkward to move hence the picture. Attached Images

19th August 2013, 08:26 PM	#10
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Viewing photos and a couple of issues of "Tribe" with Bruce Perry, I came to the conclusion: Spear of the Omo Valley had a long and wide blade, like many other African spears. However, their staff is very thin .. Spear used for close combat and for throwing. The average length varied from 1.5 to 2 meters. Sometimes on the opposite side of the blade was Drift pin. Right? Attached Images

19th August 2013, 08:30 PM	#11
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	What is it? Also spear? Attached Images

9th August 2013, 09:24 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This is good region for discussion. Many members will be able to post pictures of weapons used in this area. I have a few example from these lands. Again this is an area that has a shared material culture. So it is not always possible to say that a weapon is exclusive to one group of people over a vast region. I will try to post some pictures over the weekend. This link is a good source of information on this region. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilemi_Triangle

10th August 2013, 06:44 AM	#3
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	OK, I'm waiting

11th August 2013, 11:22 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This link is worth exploring. You can click on the map or people names. All these regions border Ethiopia; Blue Nile, Upper Nile, Jonglei, and Eastern Equatoria in the disputed Ilemi Triangle. Traditional material culture and weaponry will be similar in this region. You have to remember that the borders between the tribal peoples in the Ilemi Triangle are modern colonial lines on the map. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/sudan_map.php

11th August 2013, 12:05 PM	#5
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Thanks, great link!

11th August 2013, 02:18 PM	#8
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Thanks you. But what about the names of this weapons? Simply shield, club, axe? Or is there a special term?

14th August 2013, 11:55 AM	#9
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	And one more question: they used the bow? And what firearms they use in XIX - early XX century? Today this warriors use AK-47, Mossin rifle, SKS and MG-3.

20th August 2013, 12:57 AM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THE LAST ITEM PICTURED IS A NOMADIC HAT RACK, WHEREVER YOU ARE YOU HAVE A PLACE TO HANG YOUR STUFF UP OFF THE GROUND.

20th August 2013, 02:56 PM	#13
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Realy? Thanks, this intersted) See, this is Bruce Perry with nyangatom's spear. Than it is decorated? Hair? But whose? They have only goats and cows, as far as I know .. Attached Images

19th November 2013, 07:01 PM	#15
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "throwing knife"? regular knife, as shown in Figure one, or a knife in the likeness zandes, as shown two? Attached Images

27th August 2014, 08:11 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Interesting idea, but was China a blade exporter at the late 19th early 20th century? That is a period of economic weakness?

28th August 2014, 11:13 AM	#18
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hello, Finger Knife ("Ngigolio") from the Turkana or Pokot people of Kenya \| ca. 1986 \| Metal and copper wire Thumb ring knife from the Turkana people \| Aluminium and copper \| Late 19th to early 20th century Wrist Knife with Cover ("Abarait") from the Turkana people of Kenya \| ca. 1986 \| Metal and leather. and this link: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/356769601700881963/ I hope it can help. Kubur Attached Images

3rd September 2014, 08:42 AM	#20
Aleksey Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 15	Dear Tim, Could you give the exact dimensions of the sword + good close-ups of the blade? It seems to be real God's blessing to Nilotic smiths to fordge such a blade! The close-ups of the blade allow to judge about the fordging technology - the Chinese style of blade making has a lot of peculiarities whuch allow us to judge quite definetely regarding the blade.