The photo of the year

Yannis · 27th February 2006, 11:54 AM

London Arms Fair Park Lane. After the end of the show someone wanted this door open. A 19th century Persian axe finds a new role.

wolviex · 27th February 2006, 07:53 PM

Ha! I always new that Britons have too much of this stuff, they just don't know what to do with all of these!

ariel · 27th February 2006, 08:28 PM

Despite my pessimism, some of our collectable stuff still has some practical value.

Titus Pullo · 28th February 2006, 02:58 AM

Looks like the stuff some Siamese soldiers would use! Some of the nobles, military advisers, and government officials, and probably some Siamese people, were decendants from Persians who immigrated to Siam a long time ago. Siam was a melting pot of cultures and idea, and it still is today.

Andrew · 28th February 2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

Looks like the stuff some Siamese soldiers would use! Some of the nobles, military advisers, and government officials, and probably some Siamese people, were decendants from Persians who immigrated to Siam a long time ago. Siam was a melting pot of cultures and idea, and it still is today.

Titus, where did you come by this information?

What Persian immigration are you referring to, and when did it occur?

Titus Pullo · 28th February 2006, 07:02 AM

I'm not sure either when they immigrated to Siam, but after the fall of Ayutthaya some of the high ranking officials of the new Siamese kingdom, Rattanakosin, were of Persian decents...according to historical documents I've read online. There has always been migrations from other parts of the world since Ayutthaya era...it traded heavily with foriegners, and a lot of them decided to stay. A lot of Chinese, in particular, settle down in Ayutthaya. Even the today's king's family has some Chinese ancestries. In ceremonial events, for example, the Brahmans would be the ones who carried it out, seeing things through, these people are decendants from people, who migrated from Ceylon, I believe, centuries earlier. Siam was, and still is, a melting pot of cultures and idea. I went to school with a lot of Sikhs and Hindus in Thailand, when I was in 8th grade. There were also migration from Laos and Cambodia. Did you know there are more Laotions in Thailand than in Laos? And you probably know about the Shans already, they are exactly the same as people from Northern Thailand, but their kingdom is in Burma. They have their own distinct wirtting however, and it used to be that the Shan State was the biggest Thai kingdom, even bigger than Ayutthaya, but because of centuries of bloody warfare with the Burmans, it had reduced their number greatly. The Shans (and the Siamese, also) called themselves Thai Yai, which tranlates to Big Thai...because they were the largest Thai state in ancient time. I hope this clears things up for you.

ariel · 28th February 2006, 02:06 PM

This is very interesting.
Questions:
1. Did Persians migrate en masse or individually? If the latter, it would not count: just like an occasional Spaniard in Prague. But if the former is true, we might find tangible Persian influences in Thai culture (weapons, of course).
2. Are you sure they were Persians and not Indian Moghuls?

Titus Pullo · 2nd March 2006, 03:11 AM

I think it must have been the latter...though, some people can trace their ancestry back to their Persian root.

PUFF · 2nd March 2006, 07:09 AM

Persian migrated into Siam in the late 16th cent. and their history are well documented. We can trace back up to an Iranian named "Chek-Ahmad" (Sheikh Ahmed, I guessed) and his younger brother who visit Ayuthaya as merchants. They decided to settle down in Siam and do a lot of business with persian side. Later, many persian migrated into Siam and form persian colonies. Today, some of them still exist.

Chek-Ahmad is also the root of "Boon-Nak", a noble family, who served the royal family for centuries. The merchant brothers were very welcome by Siamese. After Chek-Ahmad and his men strenghten royal and city guard, solved a rebeling problem and then he was promoted to a very high-range noblehood. Beside his merchant business, he introduced islam (Shi'a) to Siam and also provided hourse and calvary trainig to the Siamese military.

Back to the topic, I don't feel persian battle axe is standard weapon for persian-adopted Siamese soldier. Persian-adopted units are mostly calvary and they served as bracers in the field. Accoeding to the national museum of Thailand, standard calvary weapons are agile polearm such as "Tuan" (lance) and "Tomorn" (trident) not axe or such.

BluErf · 3rd March 2006, 02:25 AM

I'm sorry, but this is just showing no respect to the axe. Not that it has any feelings, but the image is just kind of 'monstrous'. I think its going to get at least a few scratch marks...

Axe: "Hey!! I didn't survive 200 years to be used as a doorstop!!"

manicdj · 3rd March 2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I'm sorry, but this is just showing no respect to the axe. Not that it has any feelings, but the image is just kind of 'monstrous'. I think its going to get at least a few scratch marks...

Axe: "Hey!! I didn't survive 200 years to be used as a doorstop!!"

Just goes to show that, not averybody is (A) BLADESMAN

27th February 2006, 11:54 AM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	The photo of the year London Arms Fair Park Lane. After the end of the show someone wanted this door open. A 19th century Persian axe finds a new role. Attached Images

27th February 2006, 07:53 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Ha! I always new that Britons have too much of this stuff, they just don't know what to do with all of these!

27th February 2006, 08:28 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Despite my pessimism, some of our collectable stuff still has some practical value.

28th February 2006, 02:58 AM	#4
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Looks like the stuff some Siamese soldiers would use! Some of the nobles, military advisers, and government officials, and probably some Siamese people, were decendants from Persians who immigrated to Siam a long time ago. Siam was a melting pot of cultures and idea, and it still is today.

28th February 2006, 07:02 AM	#6
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	I'm not sure either when they immigrated to Siam, but after the fall of Ayutthaya some of the high ranking officials of the new Siamese kingdom, Rattanakosin, were of Persian decents...according to historical documents I've read online. There has always been migrations from other parts of the world since Ayutthaya era...it traded heavily with foriegners, and a lot of them decided to stay. A lot of Chinese, in particular, settle down in Ayutthaya. Even the today's king's family has some Chinese ancestries. In ceremonial events, for example, the Brahmans would be the ones who carried it out, seeing things through, these people are decendants from people, who migrated from Ceylon, I believe, centuries earlier. Siam was, and still is, a melting pot of cultures and idea. I went to school with a lot of Sikhs and Hindus in Thailand, when I was in 8th grade. There were also migration from Laos and Cambodia. Did you know there are more Laotions in Thailand than in Laos? And you probably know about the Shans already, they are exactly the same as people from Northern Thailand, but their kingdom is in Burma. They have their own distinct wirtting however, and it used to be that the Shan State was the biggest Thai kingdom, even bigger than Ayutthaya, but because of centuries of bloody warfare with the Burmans, it had reduced their number greatly. The Shans (and the Siamese, also) called themselves Thai Yai, which tranlates to Big Thai...because they were the largest Thai state in ancient time. I hope this clears things up for you.

28th February 2006, 02:06 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is very interesting. Questions: 1. Did Persians migrate en masse or individually? If the latter, it would not count: just like an occasional Spaniard in Prague. But if the former is true, we might find tangible Persian influences in Thai culture (weapons, of course). 2. Are you sure they were Persians and not Indian Moghuls?

2nd March 2006, 03:11 AM	#8
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	I think it must have been the latter...though, some people can trace their ancestry back to their Persian root.

2nd March 2006, 07:09 AM	#9
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Persian migrated into Siam in the late 16th cent. and their history are well documented. We can trace back up to an Iranian named "Chek-Ahmad" (Sheikh Ahmed, I guessed) and his younger brother who visit Ayuthaya as merchants. They decided to settle down in Siam and do a lot of business with persian side. Later, many persian migrated into Siam and form persian colonies. Today, some of them still exist. Chek-Ahmad is also the root of "Boon-Nak", a noble family, who served the royal family for centuries. The merchant brothers were very welcome by Siamese. After Chek-Ahmad and his men strenghten royal and city guard, solved a rebeling problem and then he was promoted to a very high-range noblehood. Beside his merchant business, he introduced islam (Shi'a) to Siam and also provided hourse and calvary trainig to the Siamese military. Back to the topic, I don't feel persian battle axe is standard weapon for persian-adopted Siamese soldier. Persian-adopted units are mostly calvary and they served as bracers in the field. Accoeding to the national museum of Thailand, standard calvary weapons are agile polearm such as "Tuan" (lance) and "Tomorn" (trident) not axe or such.

3rd March 2006, 02:25 AM	#10
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I'm sorry, but this is just showing no respect to the axe. Not that it has any feelings, but the image is just kind of 'monstrous'. I think its going to get at least a few scratch marks... Axe: "Hey!! I didn't survive 200 years to be used as a doorstop!!"