Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran

CharlesS · 22nd January 2008, 04:14 AM

Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran...Forefather of the Rentcong???

I had been looking for one of these for years, and finally with the help of some forumite friends I was able to acquire one.

This is a Sumatran dagger known as a lopah petawaran(See Zonneveld, Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, pg. 83) and is supposedly the predecessor to the much more famous rentcong.

This one is 14.5in. overall, with a 9in. thick heavy blade. The hilt may be rhino, and is tipped with a silvered cap.

I know several other forumites are fond of these types, and hope they will put pics of their examples on as well. There are many different versions, via embellishments, of these. Hopefully this will become a good research thread for this form of dagger.

VVV · 23rd January 2008, 11:44 AM

Congratulations Charles!

I know you have been looking for a perfect Lopah for a long time.
I am not that picky myself so here are some other variations for discussion.

Picture 2 below show the two main variations of hilts.
There are different opinions on if this knife originated among the Gayo tribe or the Karo Batak (where it is used by the guru/healer priest for purification/exorcistic ceremonies).

Michael

CharlesS · 23rd January 2008, 01:35 PM

Some amazing examples VVV. Some of these certainly look more ceremonial than combat worthy.

Thanks for posting

Maurice · 23rd January 2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I know several other forumites are fond of these types, and hope they will put pics of their examples on as well.

Hi Charles and Michael,

I'm also fond of this type but I do not own one (unfortunately).
As a matter of fact I know someone who is selling an old lopah petawaran.
As it is against the rules of this forum to picture this lopah, I can sent you the link where it's on by email when you are interested.

Regards,
Maurice

kai · 23rd January 2008, 10:20 PM

Congrats, Charles!

I'm hoping for even more examples to be posted!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 23rd January 2008, 11:28 PM

Here here! These are lovely puppies (woof!

).

Javagolok, I don't have any either. May be one day when I grow up..........

Maurice · 24th January 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Javagolok, I don't have any either. May be one day when I grow up..........

Battara,

I think most of us will only SHRUNK in future instead of GROW.

Maurice · 6th August 2008, 10:01 AM

Bringing up this old thread of Charless, I just read some additional information about this weapon in the book: Alte Kulturen auf Sumatra-Java-Borneo!

It seems that it is also called "rentsung" (which name is not mentioned in the book of Zonneveld), not to confuse with the traditional rencong from Aceh.
Among other things, one thing is that the first haircut of a child was done by this knife.

paolo · 4th November 2008, 08:27 PM

At last, also I have a Lopah patawaran

. Very expensive, however I was searching for one by many time. I send some pics to share it.
The blade (the tip is a little worn) and the ferrule are of good pamor. Someone may see, as I think, a squatted man on the ferrule ? (pic 4 )
The ornamental silver work on the sheat is for me quite strange. Might You explain to me its meaning ?
Paolo

Dajak · 4th November 2008, 09:11 PM

These knife s are for ceremonial use .

Ben

Rick · 4th November 2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo

At last, also I have a Lopah patawaran

. Very expensive, however I was searching for one by many time. I send some pics to share it.
The blade (the tip is a little worn) and the ferrule are of good pamor. Someone may see, as I think, a squatted man on the ferrule ? (pic 4 )
The ornamental silver work on the sheat is for me quite strange. Might You explain to me its meaning ?
Paolo

This ?? (copy and paste)

See society .

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Batak-(Indonesia)

paolo · 5th November 2008, 08:30 PM

Rick,
the first time I look at the sheat I thought to a cross, but knowing nothing about the Christian missions in Sumatra, I belive the ornamental work might have another meaning. If your assumption is right, my dagger should be end of 19th century.
Thank you for your help.
Paolo

Rick · 5th November 2008, 08:46 PM

No assumptions made Paolo .

Just a thought .

Royston · 10th November 2008, 01:57 PM

Here is another one. I always wondered what it was.

Overall length 38 cm
Blade 25 cm
Hilt horn with a silver cap and what I believe is suassa near the blade.
Scabbard is silver over wood.

Regards
Royston

DaveF · 14th March 2018, 06:14 PM

I had originally posted these pictures under the heading "what is it?". Sajen and kai referred me here and identified it as Batak, probably an Every Day Carry relative of the Lopah pataweran, so I'm putting the images up here in the hope that they will be more useful to any future researcher on this thread rather than on the one I started. The handle is horn and the scabbard is wood with copper/brass bands.

Sajen · 30th September 2018, 01:58 PM

Like Charles I had been looking for one of these for years, finally I've found this one by a german auction house listed together with a keris.
After I've given it some TLC it's a fairly nice example, the scabbard toe is missing and there are some other faults but I can live with it.
375 mm inside scabbard, 298 mm without, blade 6 mm thick near the handle, 243 gram.

Athanase · 30th September 2018, 05:13 PM

Very nice!

CharlesS · 30th September 2018, 05:42 PM

Very nice Detlef! I like these elegant little knives.

Sajen · 30th September 2018, 06:17 PM

Thank you Severin and Charles.

It coming together with a keris from Kelantan, the previous owner seems to has a somewhat different understanding of the orientation of the scabbard mouth.

Athanase · 30th September 2018, 06:33 PM

LOL

The selut position is also fun.

Sajen · 30th September 2018, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

The selut position is also fun.

Yes, fortunately was used a glue which was easily removable.

Sajen · 17th October 2021, 04:09 PM

A new addition to the collection, an example with a blade missing the integral bolster. Sadly the blade is in a sad condition.

Sajen · 17th October 2021, 04:11 PM

Here together with the other one.

Interested Party · 17th October 2021, 06:52 PM

Did this serve the purpose of a fancy utility knife? I.e. chores/chopper/self defense?

Sajen · 17th October 2021, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Did this serve the purpose of a fancy utility knife? I.e. chores/chopper/self defense?

These are for ceremonial use, see also post #2 & #8.

Interested Party · 17th October 2021, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

These are for ceremonial use, see also post #2 & #8.

Thank you Sanjen.

I was asking for clarification. I have noticed that many opinions on the forum have evolved in the last 13 years

Battara · 17th October 2021, 09:00 PM

Detlef, I love your new lopah!

kai · 17th October 2021, 10:29 PM

Congrats, Detlef!

You got the typical LP with bolster as well as now the variant type without!

These blades tend to be a bit rough; this may be partly due to their ceremonial use and sometimes due to their age...

Regards,
Kai

kai · 17th October 2021, 10:37 PM

P.S.: Any indication whether the metal extension/tang out of the pommel possibly got bent later rather than originally?

Sajen · 17th October 2021, 11:52 PM

Thank you Jose and Kai.

The extension seems bent originally. And it had once two more chains, this seems to suggest a second hole in the silver end cap. See one picture from the seller.

Regards,
Detlef

22nd January 2008, 04:14 AM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran...Forefather to the Rentcong??? Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran...Forefather of the Rentcong??? I had been looking for one of these for years, and finally with the help of some forumite friends I was able to acquire one. This is a Sumatran dagger known as a *lopah petawaran(See Zonneveld, Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, pg. 83) and is supposedly the predecessor to the much more famous rentcong. This one is 14.5in. overall, with a 9in. thick heavy blade. The hilt may be rhino, and is tipped with a silvered cap. I know several other forumites are fond of these types, and hope they will put pics of their examples on as well. There are many different versions, via embellishments, of these. Hopefully this will become a good research thread for this form of dagger. Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 22nd January 2008 at 03:00 PM.*

4th November 2008, 08:27 PM	#9
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	At last, also I have a Lopah patawaran . Very expensive, however I was searching for one by many time. I send some pics to share it. The blade (the tip is a little worn) and the ferrule are of good pamor. Someone may see, as I think, a squatted man on the ferrule ? (pic 4 ) The ornamental silver work on the sheat is for me quite strange. Might You explain to me its meaning ? Paolo Attached Images

10th November 2008, 01:57 PM	#14
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Another one Here is another one. I always wondered what it was. Overall length 38 cm Blade 25 cm Hilt horn with a silver cap and what I believe is suassa near the blade. Scabbard is silver over wood. Regards Royston Attached Images

14th March 2018, 06:14 PM	#15
DaveF Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Lancashire, England Posts: 37	I had originally posted these pictures under the heading "what is it?". Sajen and kai referred me here and identified it as Batak, probably an Every Day Carry relative of the Lopah pataweran, so I'm putting the images up here in the hope that they will be more useful to any future researcher on this thread rather than on the one I started. The handle is horn and the scabbard is wood with copper/brass bands. Attached Images

30th September 2018, 01:58 PM	#16
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Like Charles I had been looking for one of these for years, finally I've found this one by a german auction house listed together with a keris. After I've given it some TLC it's a fairly nice example, the scabbard toe is missing and there are some other faults but I can live with it. 375 mm inside scabbard, 298 mm without, blade 6 mm thick near the handle, 243 gram. Attached Images

23rd January 2008, 11:44 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Congratulations Charles! I know you have been looking for a perfect Lopah for a long time. I am not that picky myself so here are some other variations for discussion. Picture 2 below show the two main variations of hilts. There are different opinions on if this knife originated among the Gayo tribe or the Karo Batak (where it is used by the guru/healer priest for purification/exorcistic ceremonies). Michael Attached Images

23rd January 2008, 01:35 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Some amazing examples VVV. Some of these certainly look more ceremonial than combat worthy. Thanks for posting

23rd January 2008, 10:20 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, Charles! I'm hoping for even more examples to be posted! Regards, Kai

23rd January 2008, 11:28 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Here here! These are lovely puppies (woof! ). Javagolok, I don't have any either. May be one day when I grow up..........

6th August 2008, 10:01 AM	#8
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	additional fun info Bringing up this old thread of Charless, I just read some additional information about this weapon in the book: Alte Kulturen auf Sumatra-Java-Borneo! It seems that it is also called "rentsung" (which name is not mentioned in the book of Zonneveld), not to confuse with the traditional rencong from Aceh. Among other things, one thing is that the first haircut of a child was done by this knife.

4th November 2008, 09:11 PM	#10
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	These knife s are for ceremonial use . Ben

5th November 2008, 08:30 PM	#12
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Rick, the first time I look at the sheat I thought to a cross, but knowing nothing about the Christian missions in Sumatra, I belive the ornamental work might have another meaning. If your assumption is right, my dagger should be end of 19th century. Thank you for your help. Paolo

5th November 2008, 08:46 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	No assumptions made Paolo . Just a thought .

30th September 2018, 05:13 PM	#17
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Very nice!

30th September 2018, 05:42 PM	#18
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Very nice Detlef! I like these elegant little knives.

30th September 2018, 06:17 PM	#19
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you Severin and Charles. It coming together with a keris from Kelantan, the previous owner seems to has a somewhat different understanding of the orientation of the scabbard mouth. Attached Images

30th September 2018, 06:33 PM	#20
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	LOL The selut position is also fun.

17th October 2021, 04:09 PM	#22
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	A new addition to the collection, an example with a blade missing the integral bolster. Sadly the blade is in a sad condition. Attached Images

17th October 2021, 04:11 PM	#23
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Here together with the other one. Attached Images

17th October 2021, 06:52 PM	#24
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 476	Did this serve the purpose of a fancy utility knife? I.e. chores/chopper/self defense?

17th October 2021, 09:00 PM	#27
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Detlef, I love your new lopah!

17th October 2021, 10:29 PM	#28
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Congrats, Detlef! You got the typical LP with bolster as well as now the variant type without! These blades tend to be a bit rough; this may be partly due to their ceremonial use and sometimes due to their age... Regards, Kai

17th October 2021, 10:37 PM	#29
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	P.S.: Any indication whether the metal extension/tang out of the pommel possibly got bent later rather than originally?

17th October 2021, 11:52 PM	#30
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you Jose and Kai. The extension seems bent originally. And it had once two more chains, this seems to suggest a second hole in the silver end cap. See one picture from the seller. Regards, Detlef Attached Images