A Very Nice 'Talibon' Sword

CharlesS · 20th October 2005, 09:32 PM

As a collector of Moro swords I typically stay away from the swords of non-Muslim people of the Philippines, but this talibon struck me as exceptional. Dated 1899, the carving is outstanding throughout, and the blade is very thick and heavy. This one really gave me a new found respect for such pieces.

Tim Simmons · 20th October 2005, 10:16 PM

What a beautiful thing, it should really belong to me

. Tim

Spunjer · 21st October 2005, 12:59 AM

wow! what is striking is that it actually has the date engraved!!! nice acquisition, charles...

Bill · 21st October 2005, 01:35 AM

Congrats on a great find. The Visayan Islands started to be under US control in 1899. Cebu was fighting the Spanish control in 1898. I've lean towards thinking this type of sword would be from Cebu. Maybe an early presentation sword to US officer? It sure seems to be in excellent condition. By 1900 there was conflict with Americans. If you find any more info on it, please post.

LabanTayo · 21st October 2005, 02:37 AM

Nice piece, Charles!!!!!
Congrats

VANDOO · 21st October 2005, 02:43 AM

THAT IS A REAL BEAUTY, EXCELLENT WORKMANSHIP, DATED, CLOTH STRAP AND GRIP WRAP INTACT SOMETHING YOU JUST DON'T FIND UNLESS YOU ARE LUCKY. CONGRADULATIONS!
WHAT ARE ITS MEASUREMENTS?

Battara · 21st October 2005, 07:38 AM

Nice puppy Chuckmeister (woof!

). It is possible that this is a capture piece. Cebu and Bohol were fighting until 1901, especially when some Cebuanos moved to Bohol and finally surrendered. I have a similar talibon with the surrender date in ink on mine. Rare to have the cloth on it.

zelbone · 21st October 2005, 08:23 AM

...notice the red wrapped hilt?

Pulahan?!?!?

Cebu?....

try Samar

Renegade Conquistador · 22nd October 2005, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

As a collector of Moro swords I typically stay away from the swords of non-Muslim people of the Philippines, but this talibon struck me as exceptional.

Is there any specific reason why you avoid "non-Muslim" Filipino swords?

Just curious.

Quote:

Dated 1899, the carving is outstanding throughout, and the blade is very thick and heavy. This one really gave me a new found respect for such pieces.

It's a really nice sword. The talibon is probably my favorite of all Filipino edged weapons. I really like the extreme forward cant of the blade--increases chopping capacity, and facilitates thrusts as well.

tom hyle · 23rd October 2005, 07:44 PM

Don't know about Charles S; many collectors have (until recently, it seems) avoided nonMolslem PI swords because of fashion and (incorrect) attitudes regarding quality.
This (though we lack a definition) is the type now being called a "garab"; it's the type with the thumbest, and yours in the particular variation (triple concave sheath front, finialed pommel, etc.) one sees in pretty much all the published sources. This always carried a perhaps inappropriate prestige, but it certainly seems like a nice sword (they usually do).
Most interesting feature may be that this is a left handed sword (unless your photos are reversed or something).

tom hyle · 26th October 2005, 02:24 AM

note the pinned sheath tip.

Battara · 26th October 2005, 05:22 AM

I have noticed that the better talibons (

to the fashions) have a pinned tip with mother of pearl. Mine does as well.

KuKulzA28 · 20th March 2009, 02:01 AM

That looks very nice... if you ever get tired of it, let me know, I can help you out

I have two questions for those knowledgeable about Filipino blades...

Is the Talibon a sword, or a work blade, or is it both?

For example the Force Recon Marines of the Philippines use what's called the ginunting as a machete and sword. However a barong or a kris is mainly a weapon of war... though arguably the barong has application as a cleaver and for cutting greens.
While it has an elegant sweep, talibons tend to be on the heavier side and they range from a knife to around 20" in blade length. This indicates to me that it's built to withstand pressures more than just cutting grasses and vegetation, but perhaps sterner stuff like saplings, bamboo, and people.

Also, what is a garab, and what is a talibon? What do those names mean?

Being Taiwanese American, not Filipino, these names are just labels for me. For example I found out some time ago that ginunting supposedly means scissor, a description of the blade shape perhaps... I also read pinuti means shining white, that is, when the bolo was cleaned and resharpened - ready for fighting.

Thanks guys, always trying to learn

KuKulzA28 · 20th March 2009, 10:34 PM

Anyone have an idea of the answers to my two questions?

Dimasalang · 21st March 2009, 12:02 AM

I don’t know, I would just label this sword, “Visayan/Talibon/Garab/Pulahan/Dios Dios type sword”.

I agree this is a Pulahan type sword too, but the date is interesting. In 1899, the Pulahan was really in its infancy and was not really established at that time…and it is possible they did not exist yet. Faustino Ablen is said to be the originator of the Pulahans. During the Spanish era he was in prison, he was not released until the Americans came along(~1899). Papa Ablen was originally a member of the Dios Dios(God-God) group. The Dios Dios started in the early 1890s and became famous in the mid-to-late 1890s...some members of this group participated in the Revolution of 1896(Ablen being one of them). After Ablen was released, he branched off from the Dios Dios and his group evolved in to the Pulahans. As far as farming tool, I wouldn't think so. The Pulahans had several different tribes...they were Mountain dwellers/Nomads. They did farm a bit, their main cash crop was hemp. But prior to either group, there has always been conflict between the mountain tribes and the costal villagers for centuries…they were always on the move and constantly fighting, I would believe that is the main purpose of these type of weapon. And the Pulahan group just became the most ruthless in terms of fighting and killing after the Phil-Am War because they did not spare anyone, and that includes women and children. All the while, their religion spread like wild fire, within a couple years(1900-1902) there were said to be 15-20,000 members, and they terrorized everyone including US soldiers and the Philippine Constabulary. So fighting south of Luzon continued with the Americans years after the Philippine-American War(ended 1902). Fighting didn’t start easing until the capture of Ablen in 1907. The last fighting Pulahan group belonged to Papa Otoy…Otoy was killed in Oct of 1911. Sad really, the Pulahans do not get much recognition in history as say the Moros...many Pulahan battles are confused with and grouped in with the Moro uprisings because both groups were fighting the Americans at the same time. They are nothing close to the Moro Muslims, in fact they were nothing more than a crazed Christian killer cult.
To go even more off topic. Some eskrima grandmasters claimed to have been taught by members of the Pulahans. For example, Floro Villabrille claims to have been taught eskrima by a "blind" princess from the Pulahan group of the Gandara Samar region....another group claims their grandfather was taught eskrima from Faustino Ablen himself. The Pulahan group still exists today. After the fighting in the early part of the 20th century, they migrated south…covering the Cebu and north Mindanao area. A few years ago this Pulahan group had it out with swords in hand with another Christian cult group.
Rival Cults in Surigao Norte Clash

KuKulzA28 · 21st March 2009, 01:51 AM

Wow... it seems these Christian cults, and the Moro juramentado are a sort of cultural outlet for glorified bloodshed and suicide-slaughter... You didn't fully answer my questions, but I learned a lot and now I'll probably have even more questions...

Bill M · 21st March 2009, 02:08 PM

Thanks for reviving this thread. A lot of good information that I will encapsulate and put with the sword.

I have it in my collection, now. Certainly a keeper!

wilked aka Khun Deng · 24th March 2009, 08:19 AM

Bill,
Just had to comment - this is by far one the nicest I've ever seen!!!

Dan

20th October 2005, 09:32 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	A Very Nice 'Talibon' Sword As a collector of Moro swords I typically stay away from the swords of non-Muslim people of the Philippines, but this talibon struck me as exceptional. Dated 1899, the carving is outstanding throughout, and the blade is very thick and heavy. This one really gave me a new found respect for such pieces. Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 20th October 2005 at 09:36 PM. Reason: wording error

20th March 2009, 02:01 AM	#13
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	That looks very nice... if you ever get tired of it, let me know, I can help you out I have two questions for those knowledgeable about Filipino blades... Is the Talibon a sword, or a work blade, or is it both? For example the Force Recon Marines of the Philippines use what's called the ginunting as a machete and sword. However a barong or a kris is mainly a weapon of war... though arguably the barong has application as a cleaver and for cutting greens. While it has an elegant sweep, talibons tend to be on the heavier side and they range from a knife to around 20" in blade length. This indicates to me that it's built to withstand pressures more than just cutting grasses and vegetation, but perhaps sterner stuff like saplings, bamboo, and people. Also, what is a garab, and what is a talibon? What do those names mean? Being Taiwanese American, not Filipino, these names are just labels for me. For example I found out some time ago that ginunting supposedly means scissor, a description of the blade shape perhaps... I also read pinuti means shining white, that is, when the bolo was cleaned and resharpened - ready for fighting. Thanks guys, always trying to learn

20th October 2005, 10:16 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	What a beautiful thing, it should really belong to me . Tim

21st October 2005, 12:59 AM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	wow! what is striking is that it actually has the date engraved!!! nice acquisition, charles...

21st October 2005, 01:35 AM	#4
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Congrats on a great find. The Visayan Islands started to be under US control in 1899. Cebu was fighting the Spanish control in 1898. I've lean towards thinking this type of sword would be from Cebu. Maybe an early presentation sword to US officer? It sure seems to be in excellent condition. By 1900 there was conflict with Americans. If you find any more info on it, please post.

21st October 2005, 02:37 AM	#5
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	Nice piece, Charles!!!!! Congrats

21st October 2005, 02:43 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THAT IS A REAL BEAUTY, EXCELLENT WORKMANSHIP, DATED, CLOTH STRAP AND GRIP WRAP INTACT SOMETHING YOU JUST DON'T FIND UNLESS YOU ARE LUCKY. CONGRADULATIONS! WHAT ARE ITS MEASUREMENTS?

21st October 2005, 07:38 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Nice puppy Chuckmeister (woof! ). It is possible that this is a capture piece. Cebu and Bohol were fighting until 1901, especially when some Cebuanos moved to Bohol and finally surrendered. I have a similar talibon with the surrender date in ink on mine. Rare to have the cloth on it.

21st October 2005, 08:23 AM	#8
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	...notice the red wrapped hilt? Pulahan?!?!? Cebu?.... try Samar

23rd October 2005, 07:44 PM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Don't know about Charles S; many collectors have (until recently, it seems) avoided nonMolslem PI swords because of fashion and (incorrect) attitudes regarding quality. This (though we lack a definition) is the type now being called a "garab"; it's the type with the thumbest, and yours in the particular variation (triple concave sheath front, finialed pommel, etc.) one sees in pretty much all the published sources. This always carried a perhaps inappropriate prestige, but it certainly seems like a nice sword (they usually do). Most interesting feature may be that this is a left handed sword (unless your photos are reversed or something).

26th October 2005, 02:24 AM	#11
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	note the pinned sheath tip.

26th October 2005, 05:22 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I have noticed that the better talibons ( to the fashions) have a pinned tip with mother of pearl. Mine does as well.

20th March 2009, 10:34 PM	#14
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Anyone have an idea of the answers to my two questions?

21st March 2009, 12:02 AM	#15
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	I don’t know, I would just label this sword, “Visayan/Talibon/Garab/Pulahan/Dios Dios type sword”. I agree this is a Pulahan type sword too, but the date is interesting. In 1899, the Pulahan was really in its infancy and was not really established at that time…and it is possible they did not exist yet. Faustino Ablen is said to be the originator of the Pulahans. During the Spanish era he was in prison, he was not released until the Americans came along(~1899). Papa Ablen was originally a member of the Dios Dios(God-God) group. The Dios Dios started in the early 1890s and became famous in the mid-to-late 1890s...some members of this group participated in the Revolution of 1896(Ablen being one of them). After Ablen was released, he branched off from the Dios Dios and his group evolved in to the Pulahans. As far as farming tool, I wouldn't think so. The Pulahans had several different tribes...they were Mountain dwellers/Nomads. They did farm a bit, their main cash crop was hemp. But prior to either group, there has always been conflict between the mountain tribes and the costal villagers for centuries…they were always on the move and constantly fighting, I would believe that is the main purpose of these type of weapon. And the Pulahan group just became the most ruthless in terms of fighting and killing after the Phil-Am War because they did not spare anyone, and that includes women and children. All the while, their religion spread like wild fire, within a couple years(1900-1902) there were said to be 15-20,000 members, and they terrorized everyone including US soldiers and the Philippine Constabulary. So fighting south of Luzon continued with the Americans years after the Philippine-American War(ended 1902). Fighting didn’t start easing until the capture of Ablen in 1907. The last fighting Pulahan group belonged to Papa Otoy…Otoy was killed in Oct of 1911. Sad really, the Pulahans do not get much recognition in history as say the Moros...many Pulahan battles are confused with and grouped in with the Moro uprisings because both groups were fighting the Americans at the same time. They are nothing close to the Moro Muslims, in fact they were nothing more than a crazed Christian killer cult. To go even more off topic. Some eskrima grandmasters claimed to have been taught by members of the Pulahans. For example, Floro Villabrille claims to have been taught eskrima by a "blind" princess from the Pulahan group of the Gandara Samar region....another group claims their grandfather was taught eskrima from Faustino Ablen himself. The Pulahan group still exists today. After the fighting in the early part of the 20th century, they migrated south…covering the Cebu and north Mindanao area. A few years ago this Pulahan group had it out with swords in hand with another Christian cult group. Rival Cults in Surigao Norte Clash

21st March 2009, 01:51 AM	#16
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Wow... it seems these Christian cults, and the Moro juramentado are a sort of cultural outlet for glorified bloodshed and suicide-slaughter... You didn't fully answer my questions, but I learned a lot and now I'll probably have even more questions...

21st March 2009, 02:08 PM	#17
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for reviving this thread. A lot of good information that I will encapsulate and put with the sword. I have it in my collection, now. Certainly a keeper!

24th March 2009, 08:19 AM	#18
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Bill, Just had to comment - this is by far one the nicest I've ever seen!!! Dan