Beware The Early 19thC Night Watchman

Rick · 17th December 2018, 06:34 AM

He just might be toting one of these.
Any similar examples out there?
The bore looks huge.

kronckew · 17th December 2018, 07:51 AM

An early laser sight.

Gangsta style..

Bore? Maybe it's a shotgun to ensure coverage of the lantern spotlight.

Modern example:

fernando · 17th December 2018, 12:57 PM

I know why you fancy these, Rick ... no use to deny it; shark night hunting

.

Kmaddock · 17th December 2018, 03:05 PM

Looks like the trigger is bar I have labeled 1 which activates sear as I have indicated, actions 2, 3 and 4 then follow.
am i correct ?

I know the lamp is british victorian from the 1870-1900 as issued to on the beat police men
I still have my great grand fathers one at home, they used whale oil as the flammable substance.

The torque on firing would have been vicious with the hand being so far horizontal up from the muzzel.

I wonder if it was ever seriously uses

thanks for image

Ken

batjka · 17th December 2018, 03:52 PM

Seems that British cops of old were better armed than the ones today. One shot is better than no shot.

Rick · 17th December 2018, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Looks like the trigger is bar I have labeled 1 which activates sear as I have indicated, actions 2, 3 and 4 then follow.
am i correct ?

I know the lamp is british victorian from the 1870-1900 as issued to on the beat police men
I still have my great grand fathers one at home, they used whale oil as the flammable substance.

The torque on firing would have been vicious with the hand being so far horizontal up from the muzzel.

I wonder if it was ever seriously uses

thanks for image

Ken

Yep, I think you've got the firing sequence right Ken; they also made those bullseye lamps on this side of the pond.
It's not mine; I just stumbled across the picture online and thought you fellows might find it interesting.
The bore looks big enough for a load of buck and ball which is what I would reckon the optimum load to use if you only had one shot in close quarters.

Kmaddock · 17th December 2018, 05:00 PM

Thanks Rick for the posting real interesting gun set up

It is the chimney set up on the lamp that would make it standout as a British police lamp to me

There are lots of "layers" to the chimney so that it would not get too hot on top.

There is a belt loop on the back of the lamp on my example and the police man was supposed to be able to hang the lamp on their belt and warm their hands on the chimney without burning their fingers.

Maybe this was same for you guys on the other side of the pond

we wont turn this tread into a lamp discussion though

cheers,

ken

Jim McDougall · 17th December 2018, 05:06 PM

Its always fascinating to see these 'novelty' items …...the guys in India thought they had the market cornered on innovation !!! The 'Firearms Curiosa' (from the excellent book by Winant by this title)….were well known with swords with gun barrels mounted and of course the legendary Elgin cutlass pistol......but these novelties are, in a word...…...BIZARRE!

Great topic and well worth more research and examples!

Here is one that always intrigued me...…….the mysterious GRAVE ROBBERS GUN. These were apparently around in the 18th into 19th c. to thwart potential grave robbers (very Edgar Allen Poe) and seems to have operated with trip wires. I think we'll avoid this becoming a thread on graves or robbing too.

fernando · 17th December 2018, 05:42 PM

No need to change the thread title to "bizarre weaponry" or the like. As long as old guns are in the menu, digression is never a profound one.
That grave protector beast in #8 seems to have an end XVIII French lock, judging by the brass priming pan.
Here is a similar one with a different lock (i guess) from a compendium of solutions to protect fresh graves, a hobby most appealing in a determined period.

And by the way, Rick ...
What type of person would go out with that lamp gun ?

.

Rick · 17th December 2018, 05:51 PM

Gentlemen, the polite word for that profession is Resurrectionist. Much more suitable for talk at the dinner table.

Now that you mention use Fernando; I think the person going 'out' might be on the receiving end of the barrel.
I think the finger stalls are a nice touch and add a little class to the object.

fernando · 17th December 2018, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... Now that you mention use Fernando; I think the person going 'out' might be on the receiving end of the barrel.

Ah ... you got me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

.... I think the finger stalls are a nice touch and add a little class to the object...

The officer version; rank and file would have to do with a plain handle

.

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2018, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Looks like the trigger is bar I have labeled 1 which activates sear as I have indicated, actions 2, 3 and 4 then follow.
am i correct ?

I know the lamp is british victorian from the 1870-1900 as issued to on the beat police men
I still have my great grand fathers one at home, they used whale oil as the flammable substance.

The torque on firing would have been vicious with the hand being so far horizontal up from the muzzel.

I wonder if it was ever seriously uses

thanks for image

Ken

Ken, most interesting! Your great grandfather was a policeman in those days......that must be some exciting history. So you say these were actually issued? As you have well noted, actual use must have had challenges and it would be great to know if actual use occurred.

Pukka Bundook · 18th December 2018, 03:30 AM

An interesting subject!
I think most of these spring guns were used by gamekeepers.
Someone sneaking through the coverts at night might get a nasty surprise.
The trip wire of course, swivels the gun into the direction of the trespasser before it goes off. They were also used against animals, to protect game.

Laws of 1824 forbade their use against humans and also banned the use of man-traps. An old pal at home still had two man-traps. One with overlapping teeth about 2 inches long, and the other the later "Humane " version, that merely broke your leg. :-)

Best,
Richard.

Rick · 18th December 2018, 05:19 AM

The first one (probably newer than the others) is used by an operator; in the dark I would guess.

The second two are essentially booby-traps for the unwitting to set off inadvertently.

Anyway, it's a clever piece of iron work.

Kmaddock · 18th December 2018, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ken, most interesting! Your great grandfather was a policeman in those days......that must be some exciting history. So you say these were actually issued? As you have well noted, actual use must have had challenges and it would be great to know if actual use occurred.

Hi Jim
He was issued with the lamp not the gun, sorry for confusion
His service weapon was a .455 webley revolver
I have no stories at all from him, he served in Dublin and took part of the 1916 Rising but not on the side that gets all the glory in Ireland’s history.
Regards
Ken

fernando · 18th December 2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

An interesting subject!
I think most of these spring guns were used by gamekeepers...

Game keepers, game (boar) hunters, fruit keepers, you name it. They were still sold at the ironmonger during my youth, in the 'standard' type. I realize users would keep them legal when placing warning boards in their land entrance. Usually 12 gauge, to resource available shot ammunition, at times only loaded with blanks, when not for hunting but for scaring.

On the other hand, the two 'customized' specimens posted are reputed to be grave keepers ... whether they are or not

.
(The whole link i saw about it is a little sordid and partly off track).

PS
Good note abut the swiveling part, Richard; the standard type, though, is to be spiked on the ground and will not efficiently provide such effect.

.

17th December 2018, 06:34 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Beware The Early 19thC Night Watchman He just might be toting one of these. Any similar examples out there? The bore looks huge. Attached Images

17th December 2018, 07:51 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	An early laser sight. Gangsta style.. Bore? Maybe it's a shotgun to ensure coverage of the lantern spotlight. Modern example: Attached Images

17th December 2018, 03:05 PM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Looks like the trigger is bar I have labeled 1 which activates sear as I have indicated, actions 2, 3 and 4 then follow. am i correct ? I know the lamp is british victorian from the 1870-1900 as issued to on the beat police men I still have my great grand fathers one at home, they used whale oil as the flammable substance. The torque on firing would have been vicious with the hand being so far horizontal up from the muzzel. I wonder if it was ever seriously uses thanks for image Ken Attached Images

17th December 2018, 05:42 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Rick not minding ... No need to change the thread title to "bizarre weaponry" or the like. As long as old guns are in the menu, digression is never a profound one. That grave protector beast in #8 seems to have an end XVIII French lock, judging by the brass priming pan. Here is a similar one with a different lock (i guess) from a compendium of solutions to protect fresh graves, a hobby most appealing in a determined period. And by the way, Rick ... What type of person would go out with that lamp gun ? . Attached Images

18th December 2018, 05:19 AM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A Difference The first one (probably newer than the others) is used by an operator; in the dark I would guess. The second two are essentially booby-traps for the unwitting to set off inadvertently. Anyway, it's a clever piece of iron work.

17th December 2018, 12:57 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I know why you fancy these, Rick ... no use to deny it; shark night hunting .

17th December 2018, 03:52 PM	#5
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	Seems that British cops of old were better armed than the ones today. One shot is better than no shot.

17th December 2018, 05:00 PM	#7
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Thanks Rick for the posting real interesting gun set up It is the chimney set up on the lamp that would make it standout as a British police lamp to me There are lots of "layers" to the chimney so that it would not get too hot on top. There is a belt loop on the back of the lamp on my example and the police man was supposed to be able to hang the lamp on their belt and warm their hands on the chimney without burning their fingers. Maybe this was same for you guys on the other side of the pond we wont turn this tread into a lamp discussion though cheers, ken

17th December 2018, 05:06 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Its always fascinating to see these 'novelty' items …...the guys in India thought they had the market cornered on innovation !!! The 'Firearms Curiosa' (from the excellent book by Winant by this title)….were well known with swords with gun barrels mounted and of course the legendary Elgin cutlass pistol......but these novelties are, in a word...…...BIZARRE! Great topic and well worth more research and examples! Here is one that always intrigued me...…….the mysterious GRAVE ROBBERS GUN. These were apparently around in the 18th into 19th c. to thwart potential grave robbers (very Edgar Allen Poe) and seems to have operated with trip wires. I think we'll avoid this becoming a thread on graves or robbing too. Attached Images

17th December 2018, 05:51 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Gentlemen, the polite word for that profession is Resurrectionist. Much more suitable for talk at the dinner table. Now that you mention use Fernando; I think the person going 'out' might be on the receiving end of the barrel. I think the finger stalls are a nice touch and add a little class to the object.

18th December 2018, 03:30 AM	#13
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	An interesting subject! I think most of these spring guns were used by gamekeepers. Someone sneaking through the coverts at night might get a nasty surprise. The trip wire of course, swivels the gun into the direction of the trespasser before it goes off. They were also used against animals, to protect game. Laws of 1824 forbade their use against humans and also banned the use of man-traps. An old pal at home still had two man-traps. One with overlapping teeth about 2 inches long, and the other the later "Humane " version, that merely broke your leg. :-) Best, Richard.